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2014 Municipal Election: Toronto Transit Plans

Is anyone else surprised that Tory's team never thought it wise to include a CPR/Midtown line in his SmartTrack proposal? I get that SmartTrack (silly name btw) is supposed to double as a DRL, but it would actually look quite impressive with a second sweeping route across the city. Using the same costing, a route from Agincourt to Mississauga would probably be about the same. Not to mention that it essentially doubles as a B/D bypass and could gain votes in Scarboro.
 
44 North said:
Is anyone else surprised that Tory's team never thought it wise to include a CPR/Midtown line in his SmartTrack proposal? I get that SmartTrack (silly name btw) is supposed to double as a DRL, but it would actually look quite impressive with a second sweeping route across the city. Using the same costing, a route from Agincourt to Mississauga would probably be about the same. Not to mention that it essentially doubles as a B/D bypass and could gain votes in Scarboro.
Click to expand...

The cost argument would be even harder than it is now. So why bother?

Realistically, Smart Track will get rolled into the Metrolinx RER plans. Unfortunately for Queen's Park, Tory's election means that this RER proposal must take into account 416 ridership, not like GO today which favours the 905 heavily. Tory will have an electoral mandate to back him up.
 
Here's what I hope happens:

1) Smart Track merged into Metrolinx RER.

2) Scarborough subway extension goes back to LRT. Savings to be used on:

3a) extension of Sheppard subway to Agincourt (to meet Smart Track) in the East and Downsview in the West. Malvern will be fine with Scarborough RT. No need of SELRT.

Or

3b) convert Sheppard subway to LRT. Extend to Downsview in the West and to the zoo in the East.
 
Here's what I hope happens:

1) Smart Track merged into Metrolinx RER.

2) Scarborough subway extension goes back to LRT.
Number one reason being so that this city can see first-hand a reliable and true light rail rapid transit system. The underground portion of Eglinton doesn't count IMO because its enormous and cavernous stations put it more into the heavy rail category. A mixture of grade-separated surface/elevated LRT is where the true cost savings and reliability of the system is apparent

Savings to be used on:
Immediate studies of extending the S(L)RT, as well as studying fully-grade separated elevated LRT for Eglinton to eventually combine with SLRT, creating a true crosstown and a hopefully pacified Scarborough. Maybe a study on a Don Mills grade-separated LRT between Eglinton and Sheppard as well.

The FWLRT and SELRT can be cancelled outright. Too much dillydallying on them, the FWLRT is a tad overkill and has issues with industrial areas, and that money would be better spent on a DRL/King subway.
 
I really wonder what will happen when the Scarborough Subway EA comes back to council and it turns out that it will cost a lot more than expected.

Will Tory be reasonable enough to backtrack to the LRT plan? Those critical of Tory love to point out how often he backtracks. I think supporting the subway is more of a Kouvalis campaign tactic anyway.
 
WislaHD said:
I really wonder what will happen when the Scarborough Subway EA comes back to council and it turns out that it will cost a lot more than expected.

Will Tory be reasonable enough to backtrack to the LRT plan? Those critical of Tory love to point out how often he backtracks. I think supporting the subway is more of a Kouvalis campaign tactic anyway.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's politically possible to switch back to LRT if Tory wins. He'll have a clear mandate to continue on with the Scarborough Subway.
 
That is true. What if the EA returns to report that not only will it cost significantly more, but ridership will also be significantly less due to improvements to GO RER and SmartTrack?
 
it won't cost significantly more. The TTC has given itself a large budget for what is a relatively simple subway extension.

ridership is another story, projections may very well drop below the 11,000 initially projected. RER shouldn't effect it too much however, I can't see it dropping below 10,000 or so.
 
WislaHD said:
That is true. What if the EA returns to report that not only will it cost significantly more, but ridership will also be significantly less due to improvements to GO RER and SmartTrack?
Click to expand...

And it's not even a question of "if" it will cost more, but how many hundreds of millions. The proposal has a 4km station distance between Kennedy and Lawrence...there's no way that will go without an added station in between.

Add in the fact that community groups will start rallying against the loss of their local stations along the current SRT. Or that other community groups will rally against any attempts to upzone along the subway, and that McCowan offers little in the way of development opportunities...

The Scarb Subway isn't happening. People will believe it's "them downtowners" pulling some vendetta stunt. But the fact of the matter is that this is a +30 year old decision that's been made already.
 
over 4km? the distance is 3.2km. And its completely possible to cover that distance.

Exactly what communities exist around the existing SRT stops anyway? a townhouse development and a couple of apartment buildings surrounded by industrial parks. They haven't made a stink yet and I doubt they will anytime soon.

intensification along McCowan is small change compared to the politics behind this, and given the 3.2km gap in stations, they already sort of know that. The stations are conveniently located at nodes that can intensify.

Look, I really don't care whether the LRT or subway gets built, but those are some pretty flimsy reasons for the project not to go through, especially at this stage in the game. The Scarb. subway is more than likely happening at this point, I see little that can happen to prevent it. Contracts will be issued by the time the next election comes around.
 
kEiThZ said:
Here's what I hope happens:

1) Smart Track merged into Metrolinx RER.

2) Scarborough subway extension goes back to LRT. Savings to be used on:

3a) extension of Sheppard subway to Agincourt (to meet Smart Track) in the East and Downsview in the West. Malvern will be fine with Scarborough RT. No need of SELRT.

Or

3b) convert Sheppard subway to LRT. Extend to Downsview in the West and to the zoo in the East.
Click to expand...

Agreed, except personally I'd prefer the SRT ROW, including the extension ROW, to be used as part of the RER network instead of as a TTC LRT. It has all the benefits of both the subway (eliminates the forced transfer at Kennedy), and the LRT (cost-effective, includes more stations in Scarborough).

It also has the potential to significantly reduce downtimes, much like the subway proposal. Right now most buses funnel into STC. What can happen is the Stouffville line can be electrified and running the GO REX service prior to the SRT being shut down. On shutdown, TTC buses can be diverted from STC to Ellesmere or Agincourt stations. Phase 1 of the Scarborough GO REX would be revamping or rebuilding the SRT guideway into STC. Open that and then you can restore service along the corridor, except now with direct service to downtown instead of dumping everyone at Kennedy. After that you can build the extension to Malvern. Once the SRT has been taken out of commission, the ROW space can either be used to accommodate additional GO REX tracks, or turned into a linear trail, or some combination of both.

The extra $900 million already approved for the subway can go to either converting the Sheppard Subway to LRT (tough sell politically), building the Eglinton West extension, or building part of the Scarborough-Malvern LRT (keeping the money in Scarborough). The relatively inexpensive Sheppard East LRT spur to STC should be the priority with this money however, and whatever is left can go to one of the projects mentioned above.
 
44 North said:
Is anyone else surprised that Tory's team never thought it wise to include a CPR/Midtown line in his SmartTrack proposal? I get that SmartTrack (silly name btw) is supposed to double as a DRL, but it would actually look quite impressive with a second sweeping route across the city. Using the same costing, a route from Agincourt to Mississauga would probably be about the same. Not to mention that it essentially doubles as a B/D bypass and could gain votes in Scarboro.
Click to expand...
unlike Bonnie Crombie, it seems team Tory isn't about to plant its tanks on CPR's lawn. Unless only one midtown station was built at Dupont, the added load would make the Yonge line worse. Also, Tory would have regard to his Rosedale friends who would freak out at the noise from laying additional track and from train operations.
 
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