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Serious question: If it's not your church, your library, or you daycare, are you likely to care?
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2014 Municipal Election: Toronto Transit Plans
- Thread starter denfromoakvillemilton
- Start date
Serious question: If it's not your church, your library, or you daycare, are you likely to care?
salsa
Senior Member
I care about all areas of the city, but not everyone feels the same way. Many people vote for whoever will benefits themself the most.
WislaHD
Superstar
So Olivia Chow is decidedly anti-GO RER now?
Why else is she trying to drum up NIMBY support against Stouffville RER and Union station?
Why else is she trying to drum up NIMBY support against Stouffville RER and Union station?
ehlow
Senior Member
I don't think most people care. Especially if it's for expanding transit.
Apparently. Well, SmartTrack is 80% GO RER, and her whole campaign (and Ford's) seems dedicated to one mission now: explaining why SmartTrack won't work.
So it's not a huge surprise she would start criticizing, opposing and rallying people against things that are part of GO RER like double tracking Stouffville.
kEiThZ
Superstar
My instinct would be no. But more likely it depends. What's the value of the neighbourhood or the buildings in question?
But more to the point. Does this mean that transit construction under Chow would never consider exprorpriation or demolition of existing buildings at all? That's quite a stance. A NIMBY mayoralty.
The Stouffville line stunt, then this Union stunt are turning me more and more off to Chow. The former is NIMBYism at it's worst (the tracks were there before you were), and the latter is disingenuous. Metrolinx has identified the Union capacity crunch, and it's pretty evident than any GO RER scheme will lead to a similar capacity crunch as SmartTrack (since they're the same bloody thing).
NIMBYism during a mayoral campaign is the last refuge of the desperate.
NIMBYism during a mayoral campaign is the last refuge of the desperate.
kEiThZ
Superstar
The appeal to NIMBYism is baffling.
Really, how much are most voters concerned about NIMBY complaints in a particular hood when there is so much frustration over mobility in this city?
The Clean Train Coalition hardly moved any votes last election and that impacted a good chunk of the city too.
Really, how much are most voters concerned about NIMBY complaints in a particular hood when there is so much frustration over mobility in this city?
The Clean Train Coalition hardly moved any votes last election and that impacted a good chunk of the city too.
CapitalSeven
Senior Member
I think the Mt. Dennis question sounds like NIMBYism, but it isn't. Like the Union Station comment, it points to the huge, possibly fatal flaws in the scheme. Building the curve to Eglinton from the rail corridor would require tearing some corner of the neighborhood to shreds, but provide little or no benefit to locals over building a GO station where one is already planned and could be built with hardly anyone noticing. I don't know if it's true that ST would put Union over capacity, but it's another detail that the plan doesn't deal with. Because it's not a transportation plan, it's a vote plan.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
I don't think Tory will use Eglinton. I think north of Eglinton he will want Metrolinx to give up control and operation of the UPX savings billions and years of construction.
Funny how she complains about Union being overcapacity with SmartTracks but doesn't mention how the bus routes she wants to expand won't exceed capacity of the roads using them ie bunching.
Doesn't she have original ideas {except running buses they don't have} of her own on the transit file except attacking everyone else's plans? This is a classic example of desperation, when the only thing you have left to offer is criticism of the candidates. In short, try every low tactic in the book to try to salvage what little of a chance you have left. When politicians start doing this it is a tell tale sign that they themselves feel like the election is over.
Tory is the only option and hope the city has on the transit file or for just good .productive governance for that matter. I like Tory but certainly not enough to work on his campaign. He has, like all of us, his flaws and he certainly is not the kind of leader you would do cartwheels over when he wins...........he simply isn't that exciting or visionary.
Tory is, however, reasonable, open minded, and non-ideological. He is not the kind of person you would fall in love with but nor is he the kind you would hate. He is a very good "middle of the road" kind of person and after the last 3 years that is something Toronto desperately needs. If Toronto is going to get back to work with an effective mayor and council for all files including transit then you must have a mayor who is, and more importantly, not viewed as a mayor that favours one part of the city over the other.
The schism between urban and suburban Toronto has gone from significant to huge to absolutely childish. Chow will always be seen as a downtown elitist and Ford as a suburban bumpkin. Whether you think that is true or even fair is completely irrelevant as it is how they will be viewed by the citizens, press, political pundits. Tory, however, can be accused of a lot of things but being a downtown elitist who would get a nose bleed if they went north of St.Clair or a suburban bumpkin who thinks The Keg is fine dining, is not one of them. Tory will be able to work with a diverse council and decisions, like on transit, will be viewed more for their value than from either a downtown or suburban point of view.
Tory will not be a great leader but he will be a reasonable, thoughtful, and productive one.
Funny how she complains about Union being overcapacity with SmartTracks but doesn't mention how the bus routes she wants to expand won't exceed capacity of the roads using them ie bunching.
Doesn't she have original ideas {except running buses they don't have} of her own on the transit file except attacking everyone else's plans? This is a classic example of desperation, when the only thing you have left to offer is criticism of the candidates. In short, try every low tactic in the book to try to salvage what little of a chance you have left. When politicians start doing this it is a tell tale sign that they themselves feel like the election is over.
Tory is the only option and hope the city has on the transit file or for just good .productive governance for that matter. I like Tory but certainly not enough to work on his campaign. He has, like all of us, his flaws and he certainly is not the kind of leader you would do cartwheels over when he wins...........he simply isn't that exciting or visionary.
Tory is, however, reasonable, open minded, and non-ideological. He is not the kind of person you would fall in love with but nor is he the kind you would hate. He is a very good "middle of the road" kind of person and after the last 3 years that is something Toronto desperately needs. If Toronto is going to get back to work with an effective mayor and council for all files including transit then you must have a mayor who is, and more importantly, not viewed as a mayor that favours one part of the city over the other.
The schism between urban and suburban Toronto has gone from significant to huge to absolutely childish. Chow will always be seen as a downtown elitist and Ford as a suburban bumpkin. Whether you think that is true or even fair is completely irrelevant as it is how they will be viewed by the citizens, press, political pundits. Tory, however, can be accused of a lot of things but being a downtown elitist who would get a nose bleed if they went north of St.Clair or a suburban bumpkin who thinks The Keg is fine dining, is not one of them. Tory will be able to work with a diverse council and decisions, like on transit, will be viewed more for their value than from either a downtown or suburban point of view.
Tory will not be a great leader but he will be a reasonable, thoughtful, and productive one.
denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
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Yes. I care about all of Toronto. Too many people don't like ehlow has said, and that's the problem. Of course these same people think the city doesn't do enough for them!
kEiThZ
Superstar
I have long maintained that suburban residents have a strong desire for faster transport to the core. And that they'd rather focus on faster long-haul than faster local or medium-haul first. I get accused of speaking for suburbia (in particular the one I come from). Now we're seeing Tory pull ahead with Smart Track.
I really wish people would actually understand the suburban mentality. Contrary to popular belief, they don't want subways because LRTs disrupt traffic (though there is a sizeable element with that idea), the majority clamour for subways because subways represent speed. And that speed means access (to jobs, health care, etc.) and quality of life (more time with family). Our planners need to start wrapping their heads around the idea that suburban voters will keep electing populations who care about faster transit. That's not to say that most suburban voters won't support LRTs if they are built. I know lots of people that are quite excited about having the Sheppard LRT nearby. It's just that they prefer to see commute times actually get reduced noticeably.
The biggest mistake of "The Big Move" was simply rolling up all municipal plans into a provincial shopping list of transit infrastructure wants. No serious thought was actually given to regional mobility. Hopefully, with Smart Track on the table, we start discussing regional transport somewhat and have progress on a plan that will actually get cars off the road. Let's move beyond simply hoping that roads get congested enough to force drivers to take transit.
I really wish people would actually understand the suburban mentality. Contrary to popular belief, they don't want subways because LRTs disrupt traffic (though there is a sizeable element with that idea), the majority clamour for subways because subways represent speed. And that speed means access (to jobs, health care, etc.) and quality of life (more time with family). Our planners need to start wrapping their heads around the idea that suburban voters will keep electing populations who care about faster transit. That's not to say that most suburban voters won't support LRTs if they are built. I know lots of people that are quite excited about having the Sheppard LRT nearby. It's just that they prefer to see commute times actually get reduced noticeably.
The biggest mistake of "The Big Move" was simply rolling up all municipal plans into a provincial shopping list of transit infrastructure wants. No serious thought was actually given to regional mobility. Hopefully, with Smart Track on the table, we start discussing regional transport somewhat and have progress on a plan that will actually get cars off the road. Let's move beyond simply hoping that roads get congested enough to force drivers to take transit.
ehlow
Senior Member
Not sure who you're arguing against... I would think that we all agree with you that reducing travel time is important, especially for longer distances. I would argue that it isn't just a "suburban mentality", but better regional and longer distance transit would also help those who live downtown, since they often work in the suburbs these days. The whole city would agree that we need to reduce travel times, both suburbs and downtown and in between.
Our highway/road system is completely gridlocked for much of the day these days.
Subways are actually fairly local and slow. It certainly takes a very long time to take the Bloor subway from one end to another for example.
I'm pretty sure everyone supports GO RER as probably the most effective way to improve transit for longer distances and reduce travel time. Yes, I agree that's a major part of the reason why the idea of SmartTrack is popular.
SmartTrack and Tory are popular downtown as well, it's not just the suburbs.
kEiThZ
Superstar
There's quiet a few people on here that think I was mistaken when I said that suburbanites care about faster transit. There's quite a few that even thought I was wrong when I said that Tory's popularity was largely due to Smart Track effectively targeting suburban frustration with mobility.
They see ignorant suburbanites who hate LRTs and just want to drive everywhere. And they can't imagine suburbanites actually want faster transit and feel shortchanged by the lack of subways because the alternatives lack speed.
I seriously hope Tory can deliver on some version of Smart Track. If he fails, many will give up and just accept the morass that is Toronto traffic.
ehlow
Senior Member
Of course suburbanites care about faster transit, but so do downtowners... Tons of people who live downtown would take faster transit to their office parks in Mississauga and Markham instead of driving on congested highways, if it was competitive in terms of travel time.
Dan416
Senior Member
There was a lot of talk on here before by some members that speed wasn't important for transit, so I understand where kEiThZ is coming from.