Exodus to the Burbs

[lead82]

Interesting perspective on the article. I think you are onto something. The author doth protest too much. The article is certainlyngoing against the grain in that there are certainly more people moving into the downtown core than are moving out.

 

[Palma]

Open space refers to the grass growing between the road and the sidewalk, the space between the buildings, the many trees and the fact that everything is more spread out and more "natural". It's like a modern interpretation of the English Garden.

Of course, some families like things more spread out and quiet, while others like a tighter, more worldly space.

Wow, having grass growing between the sidewalks and road and having things spread out that one needs a car. That is something to aspire to? I agree that there are more and bigger parks downtown with more and larger trees and the difference is that in downtown the parks are surrounded by houses and you can walk to the parks where as in the surburbs the parks are surrounded by parking lots just waiting for those cars.

 

[Nads Gone Bads]

Wow, having grass growing between the sidewalks and road and having things spread out that one needs a car. That is something to aspire to? I agree that there are more and bigger parks downtown with more and larger trees and the difference is that in downtown the parks are surrounded by houses and you can walk to the parks where as in the surburbs the parks are surrounded by parking lots just waiting for those cars.

How are there more and bigger parks downtown than the rest of Toronto? There are 1400 named parks in the city. That alone should tell you that most of them aren't downtown. What downtown park is bigger than Sunnybrook/Wilket Creek, Downsview Park or Earl Bales Park? The only really big parks downtown are Christie Pits, Queen's Park, Trinity Bellwoods, Cityplace Park and Don River Park (once it's completed). Most of the parks downtown are quite small compared to parks in the burbs. You must never get out to the burbs. How can you say you have more and larger trees down there? Where downtown can you find any white pine trees? There are several along the natural paths bordering Sunnybrook that are well over a hundred feet tall. Most of Toronto's ravine system is situated in the burbs. Also, many of the neighbourhoods have far more trees than downtown residential streets. All you have to do is open google maps and see how much more green the burbs are.

"Wow, having grass growing between the sidewalks and road and having things spread out that one needs a car. That is something to aspire to?" Some people like that. Why do you make it sound like such a bad thing?

 

[W. K. Lis]

How are there more and bigger parks downtown than the rest of Toronto? There are 1400 named parks in the city. That alone should tell you that most of them aren't downtown. What downtown park is bigger than Sunnybrook/Wilket Creek, Downsview Park or Earl Bales Park? The only really big parks downtown are Christie Pits, Queen's Park, Trinity Bellwoods, Cityplace Park and Don River Park (once it's completed). Most of the parks downtown are quite small compared to parks in the burbs. You must never get out to the burbs. How can you say you have more and larger trees down there? Where downtown can you find any white pine trees? There are several along the natural paths bordering Sunnybrook that are well over a hundred feet tall. Most of Toronto's ravine system is situated in the burbs. Also, many of the neighbourhoods have far more trees than downtown residential streets. All you have to do is open google maps and see how much more green the burbs are.

"Wow, having grass growing between the sidewalks and road and having things spread out that one needs a car. That is something to aspire to?" Some people like that. Why do you make it sound like such a bad thing?

In early days of the City of Toronto, and the Town of York, most ravines were used as city dumps and sewers. Some were developed as parks, but not all. Trinity Bellwoods park, for example, is over the Garrison Creek. Eventually they were filled in. Today, as newer subdivisions were developed, the ravines and streams were kept and used as parks.

In the above map, you'll notice that Taddle Creek runs through the lower part of the Eaton Centre, mostly steel, concrete, and asphalt now. There would have been more parks in downtown Toronto if they had not used the streams as dumps and sewers.
See this link for more information on Toronto's lost rivers and streams.

 

[urbandreamer]

Read the article today at Chapter's--TL isn't worth buying these days.

The article is really about the author's waspy buddies moving to waspy small towns. This phenomenon is no different than various ethnicities moving to Brampton, Markham, Scarborough, Woodbridge etc based on their cultural prejudices/comfort zones/family networks. I would say that some British stock folk are no longer comfortable in the city, just as some of my South Asian co-workers would never consider living south of Eglinton because they perceive the area as "too white."

lolz to all of it.

 

[jaycola]

The GTA is expanding at a rapid rate. By most measures around 100,000 new residents are added every year. That level of growth cannot be accomodated in the city proper let alone the downtown core. When you take into account the entire Golden Horseshoe area (Niagara/Waterloo to Peterborough/Clarington up to Barrie/Orillia) that number increases to around 150,000. Forget about accommodating this level of growth within the densest urban areas. It is not possible.

The question becomes what we can do to make the suburbs and exurbs more urban, sustainable and livable?

The "Places to Grow" program addresses this issue as does the city of Toronto's "Avenues" initiative by looking at opportunities for creating denser urban centres with a mix of residential and commercial uses throughout the region.

Creating transportation connections to and between these centres, encouraging diverse development, giving greater leeway to zoning amendments will go a long way towards easing the burdon of sprawl on the environment and our municipal services.

Look where the growth is occuring and make those areas work better. Don't blame or punish people for choosing to live in quality affordable housing further out. It is their choice. Do what it takes to make this choice better for all.

On the immigration issue, I'd like to see more immigrants allowed from areas where we have lower representation. Maybe we can have a diversity element to the qualification. South America, Mexico, Southern Africa and many parts of Europe have few recent immigrants while most of our immigration comes from the Far-East, South-East and Middle-East, in the interest of diversity, let's cap the number from annually from individual countries whie encouraging other countries to open their doors to Canadian immigration.

 

[Nads Gone Bads]

In early days of the City of Toronto, and the Town of York, most ravines were used as city dumps and sewers. Some were developed as parks, but not all. Trinity Bellwoods park, for example, is over the Garrison Creek. Eventually they were filled in. Today, as newer subdivisions were developed, the ravines and streams were kept and used as parks.

In the above map, you'll notice that Taddle Creek runs through the lower part of the Eaton Centre, mostly steel, concrete, and asphalt now. There would have been more parks in downtown Toronto if they had not used the streams as dumps and sewers.
See this link for more information on Toronto's lost rivers and streams.

"There would have been more parks in downtown Toronto if they had not used the streams as dumps and sewers."

That's irrelevant. The area has long since changed. What could have been is a different story.

 

[paraone]

I would say a better comparison would be to the extent of which parks are used, downtown vs burbs... We may have smaller parks, but they are better used and much more local. Just last week I was visiting a friend in Ajax, took our kids to the park, they were the only ones there for the 2 hours we were there on a saturday, downtown they would have been 2 out of 20-30 kids.

 

[Jonny5]

I wouldn't be surprised if most of the 1400 named parks are actually in the old city of Toronto given the large number of named mini parkettes you can find on almost any street. As an example, the little strip of open space on top of the Yonge subway south of Wellesley is actually two seperate named parkettes.
There are many little parks like this scattered all over downtown. They add character to the street and they are usually well maintained by the city.

Downtown still does have a lot of large open parkland. The Riverdale Parks and High Park are very large. There's also the islands. Are these not downtown? You can draw a box around the financial distrcit and say there are no large parks there, but you could then move that box almost anywhere else in the city and find no large parks inside it too.

I don't think there is a deficiency of parkland anywhere in the 416. What matters most though is the quality of the space. Is it just a giant field of burnt grass or is there a quality maintained environemnt, whether it's a field, forest, beach, playground or a planted garden.

 

[Nads Gone Bads]

I would say a better comparison would be to the extent of which parks are used, downtown vs burbs... We may have smaller parks, but they are better used and much more local. Just last week I was visiting a friend in Ajax, took our kids to the park, they were the only ones there for the 2 hours we were there on a saturday, downtown they would have been 2 out of 20-30 kids.

I actually prefer that. There's a huge park by my house that I often have to myself. I think the families that use them appreciate that as well. It's easier to keep an eye on their children and more peaceful.

 

[nfitz]

I actually prefer that. There's a huge park by my house that I often have to myself. I think the families that use them appreciate that as well. It's easier to keep an eye on their children and more peaceful.

If there are really big parks out there that no one is using, perhaps all the penny-pinchers out there in FordLand would prefer that we sell them off and put in condos or something ... or better yet community housing, so we can sell off the expensive community housing downtown and make some $$$$.

 

[Nads Gone Bads]

I wouldn't be surprised if most of the 1400 named parks are actually in the old city of Toronto given the large number of named mini parkettes you can find on almost any street. As an example, the little strip of open space on top of the Yonge subway south of Wellesley is actually two seperate named parkettes.
There are many little parks like this scattered all over downtown. They add character to the street and they are usually well maintained by the city.

Downtown still does have a lot of large open parkland. The Riverdale Parks and High Park are very large. There's also the islands. Are these not downtown? You can draw a box around the financial distrcit and say there are no large parks there, but you could then move that box almost anywhere else in the city and find no large parks inside it too.

I don't think there is a deficiency of parkland anywhere in the 416. What matters most though is the quality of the space. Is it just a giant field of burnt grass or is there a quality maintained environemnt, whether it's a field, forest, beach, playground or a planted garden.

High Park isn't downtown. Yes, I thought of the Islands as well, though I'm not sure if that would be considered downtown. They're not even connected to the mainland.

No, the quality of the parks in my nabe is quite good. Of course there's litter in them, as there is in any city park, but there are several trees, playing fields, etc...Though the playgrounds are terrible. I believe every wooden playground in the city was torn down over the last decade, with few exceptions. All the plastic made ones lack adventure and character. There used to be a 10 foot tall catwalk at the playground of my elementary school. It was great to jump off and get gravel lodged in your palms.

 

[Nads Gone Bads]

If there are really big parks out there that no one is using, perhaps all the penny-pinchers out there in FordLand would prefer that we sell them off and put in condos or something ... or better yet community housing, so we can sell off the expensive community housing downtown and make some $$$$.

They are used. There are just times where they are quiet. Every park is like this. During the day the parks are filled, but near supper time they are quieter. But then at night the kids come out to smoke to pot and so do I.

 

[Nads Gone Bads]

If there are really big parks out there that no one is using, perhaps all the penny-pinchers out there in FordLand would prefer that we sell them off and put in condos or something ... or better yet community housing, so we can sell off the expensive community housing downtown and make some $$$$.

We don't want condos out here. If so, we'd live downtown. The last thing my area needs is community housing. There is tons of it already.

 

[adma]

But then at night the kids come out to smoke to pot and so do I.

I'm sure a lot of people would think of you as a real creep for saying that.