Highway Expansion

[GTS]

406 note

I think the 406 highway should be extended south from Welland to Port Colborne and then travel east to Fort Erie and meet up with the QEW again. I am also on a Buffalo thread as well and apparently their is talk of replacing the Peace Bridge with a span that has more lanes and is able to move more. A lot of the truck traffic could then use the 406 to get to the QEW so that it could avoid the congested Niagara Falls area during the summer and other times it is packed with tourists. This would help the efficiency of moving goods around this province and into and out of the US. This might even help Port Colborne become more economically viable for companies set up shop there.

 

[nfitz]

Really all we can do is to extend the 410, 427 and 404 more northward.

Generally I agree.

Though the Allen dead-ending onto Eglinton just doesn't make sense. Somehow that traffic needs to be distributed better to Eglinton, Bathurst, and Dufferin.

 

[TOareaFan]

Generally I agree.

Though the Allen dead-ending onto Eglinton just doesn't make sense. Somehow that traffic needs to be distributed better to Eglinton, Bathurst, and Dufferin.

It wasn't designed to make sense....it was designed to win an election!

 

[TOareaFan]

I think I love you! That's exactly what I think everytime I look at the travesty that is the 427/401/403/407 sequence. Hell throw the 409 in there as well.

Ideally the 403 gets it's intended routing back (To hell with the 407 consortium they might own the highway but they can't dictate our routings) and is extended to meet the 427. Pie in the sky would make a tunnel under the airport connecting it to the 409. The 410 gets built to real highway standards between the 401 and 403, including an interchange for Eglinton/403 at the south end.

The 427 is one spot that I don't agree with. I don't think it should head west and meet with the 400. I think it should stay on it's NW routing and head somewhere between Wasaga and Collingwood terminating at hwy 26.

I think the elevated ramp from the 410 south to the 401 East should be split to allow south eastern traffic the option of taking the express or the collectors......not only would it be convenient for those commuters it would improve, greatly, the flow of traffic in the east bound 401 as it would end the "lane" dancing that takes place because high speed traffic has been forced into the collectors even though they have no desire to be there or any desire to exit the highway.

 

[adma]

The current terminus of Allen Road at Eglinton makes little if any sense. An alternative to completely removing the it would be to extend it and create limited access interchanges at St. Clair and Bathurst. this solution however, would require much tunnelling or some acquisition of property. I made a google map to demonstrate what I envision: Link

Those who do not know history, are doomed to repeat it....

 

[Dan416]

Isn't it possible that we could just NOT expand the 400, 404, 427 and 410 north and instead invest that money into serving public transit downtown better? I mean, that's FOUR highways that people are clamouring to expand northward, and we know what that will result in: urban sprawl. If we put that money toward improving transit in Toronto better, maybe more people will live in built-up areas instead.

 

[androiduk]

It would be interesting to see what would happen if the Ontario Gov't said there would be no more new highways built in or near the GTA. Developers & people would adapt. But since they currently don't have to, why bother.

 

[TOareaFan]

There is as much wrong with a "transit-only no-road" policy as there is with a "no-transit, road only" one.

 

[Kitsune]

Isn't it possible that we could just NOT expand the 400, 404, 427 and 410 north and instead invest that money into serving public transit downtown better? I mean, that's FOUR highways that people are clamouring to expand northward, and we know what that will result in: urban sprawl. If we put that money toward improving transit in Toronto better, maybe more people will live in built-up areas instead.

I think you mean 400 south, not north, as its already getting expanded north and a battle is beginning to brew over the very poor planning of its final two interchanges in Sudbury (which I doubt that final section of highway 400 will ever see the light of day). Sorry for going a little OT...

 

[lead82]

We definitely need to expand both highways and transit. Highways are needed for truck traffic and transporting goods. Our rail infrastructure and town developments will never allow for good transport via rail to every community. Highway 400 is severely congested between Barrie and Toronto. We need to extend the 410 and 427 north. I would suggest that the 427 go north to Collingwood, while the 410 curves northwest to Owen Sound. The trick with highway expansion and preventing sprawl is to not build highway entrances frequently. The purpose of these expansions would be to reduce the time it takes for people to arrive at recreation areas such as Collingwood/Wasaga as well as to reduce the truck congestion on Highway 400.

I say expand the highways north but limit the entrances to only major towns along the way. Also, enforce strong land-use policies so that developers don't go asking for rezoning areas around the highways to build sprawling developments.

 

[Whoaccio]

Isn't it possible that we could just NOT expand the 400, 404, 427 and 410 north and instead invest that money into serving public transit downtown better? I mean, that's FOUR highways that people are clamouring to expand northward, and we know what that will result in: urban sprawl. If we put that money toward improving transit in Toronto better, maybe more people will live in built-up areas instead.

Does it really have to be an either or choice? After Toronto stopped building the Spadina Exp, it's not like TTC construction took off. We got the Allen rd. extension, the SRT & Sheppard (& the all important Spadina/Harborfront LRT...). Transit ridership, without any new highways since then, has actually fallen in absolute and, especially, relative terms. I think most people here could agree on a solid project itinerary to improve transit in the GTA, and we should. We shouldn't forget though that we will need 50b+ in public transit money in order to just keep car ridership at present levels (according to Metrolinx). At points you have to wonder whether it would be better for Torontonians to build a Jane & Malvern LRT or maybe add a few more lanes to the DVP at a fraction of the cost or remodel the underside of the Gardiner to make it more hospitable. Or hell, maybe build expressways through some of the hydro corridors. Nobody could possibly claim that will destroy communities.

Extending the 400 to the Gardiner would create more problems than it would solve. It would destroy neighbourhoods and parks, or if it were in a tunnel it would be extremely expensive. It wouldn't relieve any traffic, it would only create new bottlenecks on both the Gardiner and surrounding surface streets. It would be just as congested as the DVP.

If we built a two lane viaduct over the rail corridor south from Eglinton & BCD, no neighborhoods or parks would be bisected that aren't already bisected by an incredibly unappealing railway corridor. Land acquisition would be relatively minimal, as it would be on a rail row and the higher costs could be quite easily recouped through tolling. If it was half as congested as you imagine it would be, then it could most definitely turn a profit. How much could it possibly cost, 1, 2b? The 407 cost 1.6b and traveled 100+km. At the end of the day, the 7km from Eglinton to the Gardiner is not a major project.

 

[dunkalunk]

Those who do not know history, are doomed to repeat it....

Personally, I'd rather see the the dismantling of the Gardiner and the DRL and the Eglinton Crosstown, improved VIA service and GO service to an extended Pearson People Mover before any money is spent on building new highways.

The Allen Expressway shouldn't have been built in the first place, but with the amount of traffic on it and the preexisting interchange with the 401, I don't consider dismantling an option.

If an extension were only built as far as Bathurst, it would create a new bottleneck at the corner of Bathurst and St. Clair which would cause much disruption to the St. Clair Streetcar. Building an extension to St. Clair would help alleviate this bottleneck and would provide better access to downtown via Avenue Road and Yonge. The extension would be tolled like the ETR including tolls on the DVP and the Gardiner. This would act as a revenue pool to help fund the Metrolinx vision and act as an incentive to take transit instead of driving.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

We definitely need to expand both highways and transit. Highways are needed for truck traffic and transporting goods. Our rail infrastructure and town developments will never allow for good transport via rail to every community. Highway 400 is severely congested between Barrie and Toronto. We need to extend the 410 and 427 north. I would suggest that the 427 go north to Collingwood, while the 410 curves northwest to Owen Sound. The trick with highway expansion and preventing sprawl is to not build highway entrances frequently. The purpose of these expansions would be to reduce the time it takes for people to arrive at recreation areas such as Collingwood/Wasaga as well as to reduce the truck congestion on Highway 400.

I say expand the highways north but limit the entrances to only major towns along the way. Also, enforce strong land-use policies so that developers don't go asking for rezoning areas around the highways to build sprawling developments.

I agree. It's not highways that cause sprawl but the access points to highways that create sprawl. Yes, I realize that sounds a lot like the 'guns don't kill people ...' line. Any highway expansion should not have access points at every concession road, and should only be built in current towns. Take a look at the NY Thruway portion of the I-90, outside of town centres there are roughly 20 miles between some interchanges.

 

[jn_12]

I think the 406 highway should be extended south from Welland to Port Colborne and then travel east to Fort Erie and meet up with the QEW again. I am also on a Buffalo thread as well and apparently their is talk of replacing the Peace Bridge with a span that has more lanes and is able to move more. A lot of the truck traffic could then use the 406 to get to the QEW so that it could avoid the congested Niagara Falls area during the summer and other times it is packed with tourists. This would help the efficiency of moving goods around this province and into and out of the US. This might even help Port Colborne become more economically viable for companies set up shop there.

Well, how about first they make the 406 four lanes all the way to Welland instead of stopping on the boundary (literally). They claim it's because they would need to build a couple of expensive bridges over the Welland Canal and River, but it's pretty clear that the universal hate for Kormos is responsible for this. Welland has always been punished for its NDP leanings and could really use some help that goes beyond Politics. Something simple like a real 400-series highway leading into the city rather than a glorified back road would maybe attract some new industrial companies. Especially since the city is targeted in Places to Grow you would think the province would be all for initiatives that will make the city an attractive place to live. It really couldn't be further from the truth.

Now, don't even get me started on the mid-pen corridor...

 

[nfitz]

Those who do not know history, are doomed to repeat it....

I don't think anyone would suggest anything like that. But that doesn't mean you can't improve that interchange. Either simply tunnel to Bathurst alongside the subway - or perhaps terminate the expressway a little further north, just south of Roselawn and send traffic along the old Belt Line alignment to Bathurst and Dufferin - perhaps in a tunnel, with a simple surface road going to Eglinton. Then rebuild a streescape along Eglinton.