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2008 Federal Election: GTA Voting Patterns

Alright, guys, you sold me. The Liberals are just as conservative as the Conservatives, except they can form a majority, which the Cons won't be able to accomplish. Let's all vote for them, since you seem to share their conservative viewpoints.
 
kEiThZ said:
Agreed. It's a truly despicable move to undermine democracy. But won't this bill die if an election is called?
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If it hasn't passed yet. I haven't heard of it actually passing, so I pray to God that it dies.

Anyone know the true status of Bill C-22?
 
King of Kensington said:
Although there is now this widespread belief that the old PC's were a bunch of lovable Joe Clark-style "Red Tories" and all of these hard-line conservatives came along after the merger with the Reform Party - it's a myth. They were always there. Mike Harris was a PC, so is Jim Flaherty, Tony Clement, Rob Nicholson - these people never had anything to do with the Reform Party.
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I do not quite agree. In Ontario, before Harris and his league of ideologues entered the scene, the provincial PC party were that "lovable Joe Clark-style 'Red Tories'" - people like Davis, Robarts, Grossman. They were to the left of the Liberals. Federally, the PCs of Diefenbaker, Stanfield and Clark were for the most part centrists. So was Mulroney, but things started to get bad when he put together his coalition of western social conservatives, Quebec nationalists and Ontario/Atlantic Old Tories that fell apart. Mulroney was also a US ass-kisser, but Harper is worse in this regard. Mulroney tried to appease the western wing with that non-binding vote on capital punishment, which was defeated soundly, like he tried to appease the nationalists. He failed. And then he got crooked. Mulroney was a total failure, much of that his own fault.

Exactly. Chretien and Martin governed on the right and did more to dismantle the welfare state than Harper has done. They also did nothing in terms of enforcing Kyoto and the Tories are just continuing what they started in Afghanistan.

Martin was a rightwing Liberal who almost certainly would gave gone into Iraq had he been PM. During the debate over the Iraq war in this country, Martin echoed Harper by saying we shouldn't upset our American allies.
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I agree with you totally about Martin. He was the most conservative of the Liberals, and I wish Chretien didn't give him such a free reign in finance. I really disliked how he was hailed as such a hero, and detested how much money went to tax cuts and debt reduction with lofty, but meaningless debt-to-GDP ratio goals while the social net remained depleted and the infrastructure deficit growing. I don't think Chretien had the meanness in him that Martin did. At least Chretien was a good social liberal.

Harper is worse than Martin, much worse. Even while Martin was obsessed with pleasing the editorial board of the Wall Street Journal, he did not have hidden social agendas. The idea that the Liberals are as conservative as the Conservatives is a bit much, though at times the Liberals had some pretty right wing moments.
 
King of Kensington said:
Toronto Center is an inner city riding that completely rejects the Conservatives. The condos go overwhelmingly Liberal as does the low income housing of Regent Park and St. Jamestown. And the patrician Rae is much more appealing to Rosedalians than the Pentecostal minister sacrifical lamb the Tories ran last time.

TC is also probably the most heavily gay riding in the country - and there is no love for Harper among that group.

The likelihood of a Tory being elected in TC is about as likely as a Republican being elected to Congress from Manhattan.

As for the NDP, they have pockets of support in Cabbagetown, St. Lawrence, etc., but there is a ceiling on their support in the riding.
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Which is why anyone thinking of voting Conservative doesn't bother voting at all. I think it's time for a partial PR system at the Federal level.
 
King of Kensington said:
Except that Harper is now well established and while clearly right of center he's not the "scary" character the Liberals have made him out to be. I for example don't see evidence of "troops in the streets" that the Liberal ads said would happen with Harper in power. Mike Harris was way more of a rightwing ideologue than Harper has been to date - and to the extent that Harper has been able to get away with anything it is because Dion has propped him up the whole time.
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Well the one thing you haven't mentioned is that Harris had two majorities (his first being quite commanding). I think if Harper did have a majority right now, many would be using the word "scary" as Stephen's middle name.
 
Darkstar416 said:
Well the one thing you haven't mentioned is that Harris had two majorities (his first being quite commanding). I think if Harper did have a majority right now, many would be using the word "scary" as Stephen's middle name.
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People are already saying that - and I don't think he's in majority territory (thankfully!) But the point is we keep hearing from the usual suspects that things have changed radically under Harper's watch. Yet we saw way more tax gutting and dismantling of the welfare state under Martin, arguably the most rightwing Finance Minister in Canadian history (sorry, Jim). We can say the Tories are restrained from going all the way to the far-right because of their minority status - but then again the Liberals never missed an opportunity to prop them up! So far, little has changed from when the Liberals were in power.
 
Pay attention Toronto, Montreal has many a lesson. As some of you know, by-elections have been called in Don Valley West and a riding in Montreal, as well as the possibility of a general election. Following the by-ellection announcement, Montreal received a pledge for 1b in federal funding to rebuild a bridge and just yesterday another half a billion, part of a wider 2b package, to update and improve the Port of Montreal. Ontario could learn a thing or two from Quebec. Toronto Bloc!
 
Whoaccio said:
Pay attention Toronto, Montreal has many a lesson. As some of you know, by-elections have been called in Don Valley West and a riding in Montreal, as well as the possibility of a general election. Following the by-ellection announcement, Montreal received a pledge for 1b in federal funding to rebuild a bridge and just yesterday another half a billion, part of a wider 2b package, to update and improve the Port of Montreal. Ontario could learn a thing or two from Quebec. Toronto Bloc!
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The byelections are almost certainly going to be cancelled.
 
people here vote Liberal because there either they like the Liberals, they hate the Tories, or there Liberal MP is part of their community.

The main reason why my MP gets elected for 5 terms is because he has a Turban.

I vote for him because I hate Harper (even though I like John McCain) and the Local Mp is a nice guy.

Sure your local mp should be more then a nice guy, but compared to his competition that attribute puts him way ahead.
 
lordmandeep said:
I vote for him because I hate Harper (even though I like John McCain) and the Local Mp is a nice guy.
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But why do you hate Harper and like McCain? What is it that Harper has done to deserve your hate, and what has McCain done to earn you support?
 
Harper is a conservative and a boring dull man and I think he will shift to the country to the right if he is elected. I would not mind an economical shift to the right, but the social shift to the right worries me,

McCain is conservative but he is a maverick and a war hero and I find him to be a good experienced leader unlike Harper.


I am leaning Obama but I like and respect John McCain.

I think young people should remember sure he is old and is on the "dark side", but he is not a bad person.
 
lordmandeep said:
McCain is...a war hero.
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I've never understood this war hero label. IMO, war heros are the ones that accomplish their missions and return to base, or die while accomplishing things against incredible odds. He got himself shot down, failed to accomplish his ground attack sortie, lost the navy a million dollar aircraft and the use of one of its pilots (himself). Where is the war hero in that?

If a hero is any enlisted soldier who goes into combat at risk of life and limb, well then we've got tens of thousands of heros. I've no problem with that, and I agree mostly with this sentiment, but then it makes McCain's war hero label somewhat ordinary. And then we'll need a label for those soldiers who against all odds acheive great things, perhaps Super Hero?
 
Sure McCain failed his objectives but he stayed with his friends in that camp, even when he was allowed to leave.


Running for office, military duty is a huge plus and makes people respect you more and is imo the only reason why he doing well.
 
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