Gun Control

[Hank]

Mandatory minimums only exist because politicians know that people like the sound of 'getting tough on crime'. They do absolutely nothing towards preventing crime; all they really do is tie a judge's hands. By having them we're basically saying that we don't trust our judges to give a punishment appropriate to the crime. If that is a problem (and I don't personally think that it is) we should be looking into that, not into circumventing the problem with mandatory minimums.

The other bad thing about mandatory minimums is that they take away the ability of a judge to deal with compassionate cases. The only reason Latimer was found guilty is because the trial judge told the jury that he could give him a sentence less than the mandatory minimum of 10 years for second-degree murder. Unfortunately the trial judge was wrong, and he got the full 10 years on appeal. What this suggests is that he would have been found not guilty by the jury if they'd been properly informed about the minimum sentence by the trial judge. Did Latimer deserve to get off scott free? Maybe, but you could also argue that he deserved something between 0 and 10 years...unfortunately that option was removed by the mandatory minimum. What it does in these cases is force judges and juries to choose between an overly harsh sentance or an overly lenient sentance neither of which, by definition, are appropriate to the crime.

The point about US laws is a good one as well. Their 'war on drugs' is a miserable failure despite ridiculous 10-year mandatory minimums for a plethora of drug crimes.

 

[lordmandeep]

I believe our approach is better.

However I still do not understand the cases of people sent to jail for a year or two for shooting someone.


I think we have to throw most of these criminals in jail for a long time and then you really fix the social problems.


The problem in the states is that they threw everyone in jail and did nothing to improve such areas.

 

[Mustapha]

Just reading all these responses.

Handguns are already banned except for sport shooters who have to get a special license and go to a designated place to shoot them. The cops will interview your neighbours for this license - your neighbours actually can kibosh your application if they say something unfavourable. You can't carry the handgun around with you either, and there are lots of other regulations.

The shooters with their illegally gotten guns don't care about the regs.

My brother-in-law's father shot their mother in a drunken rage. At one time alcohol was a mitigating factor in murders; I wonder if this is still the case. They were toddlers when their mom was murdered. I met the old man a few times - always hail-fellow-well met; a smiling backslapping type. He served 13 or 14 years as I recall.

There was a double murder at the Woodlawn Community centre (Queen and Broadview) about 25 years ago. A robbery. Two volunteers were slain for the centre's petty cash box. One volunteer was a teen boy. Always had a smile. The shooting happened in the furnace room; the killer sought to muffle the rifle shots. The killer has served his time and been released.

I wonder what goes through the minds of those in their last moments of life... the pointed weapon; the threats; the moments before the shot... the pain and shock of the injuries; the taunts of the murderer... perhaps a realization as conciousness dims that your killer has made a clean crime of it and may get away.

Ahh, Canadian justice - summer of love style.

I notice that knives have been used with increasing regularity...

 

[lordmandeep]

Knives do not scare the public...

Guns do....

 

[Hydrogen]

Knives scare "the public" too. What worries people who are prone to being frightened is the potential for a random act of violence.

 

[Mystery White Boy]

"Keep your aim steady as your temple turns to kiss the pistol. Fate is gonna find your love in a glass of champagne."

 

[Voltz]

I must ask, how would banning handguns from licensed and law abiding gun owners stop criminals form obtaining guns, when they already an enormous supply south of the border?

 

[afransen]

Voltz, there are two problems:

- US smuggled weapons. This is difficult to prevent, but we should still be making the effort.
- Weapons stolen from legitimate owners. Quite preventable*, and these weapons are used in a significant amount of crime.

Tightening the supply of the latter would decrease the supply and drive up the price of handguns. While gangs that are well-funded through the marijuana and prostitution business will continue to be able to afford these weapons, the more small potato players will have to turn to less appealing options such as knives. Knives are a lot less appealing, as they involve getting within reach of the victim, which significantly increases the chances of the attacker being subject to reprisal. They also tend to less lethal unless someone is skilled.

Then this raises the issue of organized crime. To weaken organized crime, we need to starve them of funds. Legalizing and regulating marijuana and prostitution would deal a huge blow to these gangs, and their ability to wage war on each other.

* Edit: by banning. I don't see any regulation making guns safe from theft. Some collectors have had many guns stolen; they just go and buy more. I almost wonder whether they have an arrangement with the thieves to supply easily-'stolen' weapons.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Mandatory minimums only exist because politicians know that people like the sound of 'getting tough on crime'. They do absolutely nothing towards preventing crime; all they really do is tie a judge's hands.

I think people like the idea of mandatory sentences because they believe that criminals are getting out of prison too soon. If we can either inform the public that it isn't the case, or if it is, then have judges give harsher sentences, then the demand for mandatory minimum would vanish.

I've read that many, if not the majority, or those who commit gun crimes in Toronto are either out on parole or have criminal records for violent offenses. Perhaps when these guys reoffend we should keep them away.

 

[Hank]

I think people like the idea of mandatory sentences because they believe that criminals are getting out of prison too soon. If we can either inform the public that it isn't the case, or if it is, then have judges give harsher sentences, then the demand for mandatory minimum would vanish.

I've read that many, if not the majority, or those who commit gun crimes in Toronto are either out on parole or have criminal records for violent offenses. Perhaps when these guys reoffend we should keep them away.

I agree that people believe this, and I also agree that informing the population is key to combating this (mistaken, in my opinion) belief. I think that Michael Moore had a good point in Bowling for Columbine when he suggested that it's the media that's making people believe this. Pretty much every crime-related statistic has been trending downwards in recent years, but that's never the story you hear on the news. Just look at the recent Toronto Life cover...dozens of bullets with the names of people killed by guns in the past few years. This kind of fear-mongering is why people believe that we're being 'soft on crime'.

I would like to see these gun-relates statistics you mention but even if they're true I wonder: how is putting these people in jail for 5 years instead of 3 going to change anything? I suppose they won't be committing crimes for an extra two years, but shouldn't we be trying to ensure that they don't commit crimes for the rest of their lives? Extra time in jail isn't going to accomplish this goal and it clearly isn't a magic cure-all for gun crime (just look at the US...highest incarceration rates in the world combined with some of the highest gun crime rates in the developed world). Jail is a criminal factory...the extra time surrounded by other criminals certainly isn't going to make them less likely to reoffend when they get out.

I agree that there are people (multiple reoffenders, as you mention) that likely won't be saved and should be put away for a long time; putting everyone in jail for an extra few years in jail just to appease the public (who are largely poorly informed about crime), however, will do more harm than good in my opinion.

 

[Brian69]

I have no problem with handguns being outlawed for future generations even though such anti-gun stalwarts such as The Star have admitted that the gesture is more symbolic than effective (yes, it will prevent some guns getting stolen from legitimate owners but the vast majority are still illegal, unregistered and coming from the U.S.)

However, if they don't grandfather ownership for people who purchased theirs legally then I'll be damned if some tinpot Mayor whom I never liked and I'd never vote for would take away something acquired legally just because he wants to make a grand gesture to a certain segment of his constituents that doesn't match reality. There's enough of this kind of "citizen control" going around as it is.

 

[lordmandeep]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/cbc/calgary_calgary_women_guns

Calgary crime fuels jump in women buying guns

CALGARY (CBC) - The number of women buying guns and taking target practice at a Calgary business has jumped six-fold partly as a response to rising crime in the city, says the owner.
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J.R. Cox, owner of the Shooting Edge in southeast Calgary, said business has doubled in the last five years, while the percentage of his female clientele has jumped from five to 30 per cent.

He said one of the reasons is a growing sense of fear as more crimes hit Calgary streets.

"I'd like to say no, but the reality is yes. I mean we've seen many times that the police, they're always there after, I mean they're not there during the event," he said.

Cori Van Der Leest said she bought a gun to protect herself after moving from Taber to Calgary a few years ago.

"I'll warn you now I am not that good of a shot," says Van Der Leest as she loads her 9 mm handgun at the shooting range.

"If something was to ever happen, then I know I have that back behind me," she said. "Not saying to use it but just in your mind that as long as you know you can shoot a gun, then you can pretty much handle anything."

Cox says he knows police are doing their best to protect Calgarians, but he understands why a growing number of people are learning how to use a firearm.

On Friday, police asked for public assistance in finding a man wanted in a sexual assault early that morning. They said a woman was walking through a grassy area west of Macleod Trail between 78th Avenue and Heritage Drive S.W. when a man briefly engaged her in conversation and then forced her to the ground.

The man was described as Caucasian, about 30 to 35 years old, about 5-foot-10 with a medium build and short, brown hair.

This month, police released surveillance photos of two men who jump-kicked a woman from behind and continued to kick her as she was on the ground. Police believe the attack, which occurred as the victim was leaving a downtown bar, was random.

In July, police released a sketch of a man wanted in the sexual assault of a woman who was walking downtown early one morning.

Wow talk about people who feel insecure, there is so much crime here and I have not met a single person who wants to buy a gun and I have not heard about Gun Ownership increasing here.

 

[Voltz]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/cbc/calgary_calgary_women_guns





Wow talk about people who feel insecure, there is so much crime here and I have not met a single person who wants to buy a gun and I have not heard about Gun Ownership increasing here.

Well that is just one article, meant to sell papers.

And crime research shows that fear of crime has a much larger impact than crime itself, leading to some people feeling insecure and afraid. But would anyone rather have that woman in the article found raped and strangled, rather than having to explain to the police why her attacker has a few extra holes?

 

[kEiThZ]

The idea of banning assault rifles as put forward by the Libs is a good one. I don't think anybody 'needs' one of these.

 

[Archivist]

Re: earlier comments about legal gun owners. I saw that the Toronto Police estimated that about 30% of guns involved in crimes in Canada are actually obtained through Break & Enters - which of course still leaves the majority coming from the states - but 30% is not a small number either.

People who keep a handgun in their house should consider what happens when a young kid looking for drug money breaks in for a VCR - he's just been given a gift.