YRT/Viva Construction Thread (Rapidways, Terminals)

[UD2]

Viva's usage is relatively low, and high station frequency is a good way of increasing ridership due to added convenience. Optimal station spacing is 800, however the current 500-600m spacing is optimal given Markham's realities.

 

[amnesiajune]

Another flaw is the after intersection stations rather than before the intersection. If signal priority allowed the buses to go past the intersection to stop at the station, then it would be good. However, if signal priority isn't activated all the time, then having near stops may be better.

Buses are still getting a benefit from far-side stops. Remember that signals are already set up to minimize stopping in general, and the buses are never moving slower than cars. So more often than not they do hit a green light, which would turn red if they stopped near-side.

Optimal station spacing is 800, however the current 500-600m spacing is optimal given Markham's realities.

800 is optimal for service underground, not above ground.

 

[Leo_Chan]

Does anyone know when the Highway 7 East Rapidway from Birchmount Road to Unionville GO is going to be built? It's suppose to by done by 2021, so how long would it take. It involves two grade-separations, one at Enterprise Blvd and another at the tracks. I guess it would make sense for it to be built at the same time as the double tracking and double platforming of Unionville GO for RER. What do you think?

 

[TOareaFan]

But for years already YRT has been actively promoting priority signalling as something that already exists. I believe they have directed the drivers not to activate the priority unless they're falling behind schedule. What that really means that YRT needs to push a more aggressive schedule. And, yes, station frequency is too high.

That is exactly how it works on Brampton's Zum routes.....the signals are only impacted if there is route delay to be picked up/improved....and, really, that is as it should be...what is the point of issuing schedules if buses are going to be constantly ahead of them because of signal priority.......if they are on schedule...why mess with the signals.

 

[Megaton327]

That is exactly how it works on Brampton's Zum routes.....the signals are only impacted if there is route delay to be picked up/improved....and, really, that is as it should be...what is the point of issuing schedules if buses are going to be constantly ahead of them because of signal priority.......if they are on schedule...why mess with the signals.

Buses should move as fast as possible. If buses are always on schedule without using TSP, the schedules should all be made faster and the buses should always use TSP.

 

[UD2]

800 is optimal for service underground, not above ground.

800 is above ground per TTC study for LRTs.

Under ground stops out side of be downtown four hadn’t been 800 meters for a long time.

 

[Sandpit]

That is exactly how it works on Brampton's Zum routes.....the signals are only impacted if there is route delay to be picked up/improved....and, really, that is as it should be...what is the point of issuing schedules if buses are going to be constantly ahead of them because of signal priority.......if they are on schedule...why mess with the signals.

Use signal priority to reduce travel times.

 

[amnesiajune]

800 is above ground per TTC study for LRTs.

Nope. They do 800 below ground and 500-600 above ground. They actually consider 800 meter stop spacing on the underground part of Eglinton too much to eliminate the local bus service.

Under ground stops out side of be downtown four hadn’t been 800 meters for a long time.

Station spacing on Allen Road is 800-1000 meters. Yonge would've had station spacing around that north of Eglinton (except between York Mills & Sheppard) but they cut out those intermediate stations to save a bit of money. Sheppard would be similar if the Willowdale station is built.

 

[strookie]

Use signal priority to reduce travel times.

Exactly. I live in Georgetown and work near VMC. If I commuted with GO and ZUM 501, my commute, including walking, would be 2.5 hours, as opposed to 47 minutes driving on the 407. Isn't the main complaint of people that transit is not attractive because it takes 'way too long?

 

[amnesiajune]

Exactly. I live in Georgetown and work near VMC. If I commuted with GO and ZUM 501, my commute, including walking, would be 2.5 hours, as opposed to 47 minutes driving on the 407. Isn't the main complaint of people that transit is not attractive because it takes 'way too long?

If signal priority was turned on, your commute might take 2 hours and 15 minutes instead of 2 hours and 30. You'd still drive.

What Zum and Viva are doing is the right thing. Signal priority is great for maintaining headways, but headways only matter when service is frequent. When the headways aren't <10 minutes, it's a lot more important to have a reliable schedule so people know when to be at the stop. If a bus is a couple minutes late it's fine, but if it's even one minute early it can be a big problem.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Exactly. I live in Georgetown and work near VMC. If I commuted with GO and ZUM 501, my commute, including walking, would be 2.5 hours, as opposed to 47 minutes driving on the 407. Isn't the main complaint of people that transit is not attractive because it takes 'way too long?

To be fair your commute wouldn't be servicable by transit in almost any capacity - a 41km commute from a low density exurb to a low density suburb 40km away isn't a reasonable trip to be expected to be covered by transit. Even in heavily transit dependant cities a trip like that would likely be done by car.

 

[TOareaFan]

Exactly. I live in Georgetown and work near VMC. If I commuted with GO and ZUM 501, my commute, including walking, would be 2.5 hours, as opposed to 47 minutes driving on the 407.

If signal priority was turned on, your commute might take 2 hours and 15 minutes instead of 2 hours and 30. You'd still drive.

To be fair your commute wouldn't be servicable by transit in almost any capacity - a 41km commute from a low density exurb to a low density suburb 40km away isn't a reasonable trip to be expected to be covered by transit. Even in heavily transit dependant cities a trip like that would likely be done by car.

This is all true....but I am not sure why anyone in Muncipality A should/would use regional transit to get to Municipality B to transfer to a semi-local service that happens to get them to Municipality C.

Plugging in the trip Georgetown GO (using that as a proxy since I have no idea where in Georgetown stookie is) to Vaughan Metropolitan Centre into google maps just now gives travel times of

44 minutes by car (yes via the 407)
1 hour and 40 minutes by transit (a lot of transfers....33 bus to Mount Pleasant...Kitchener train to Bramalea.....46 bus to 407 station.....line 1 to VMC....presumably this is quicker if you are going at a time when there is a train from Georgetown (ie. cutting out the 33 bus to Mt Pleasant bit).....so likely around 1 1/2 hours.

Signal priority or not, Georgetown to VMC is not what Zum was built for.

 

[amnesiajune]

This is all true....but I am not sure why anyone in Muncipality A should/would use regional transit to get to Municipality B to transfer to a semi-local service that happens to get them to Municipality C.

Plugging in the trip Georgetown GO (using that as a proxy since I have no idea where in Georgetown stookie is) to Vaughan Metropolitan Centre into google maps just now gives travel times of

44 minutes by car (yes via the 407)
1 hour and 40 minutes by transit (a lot of transfers....33 bus to Mount Pleasant...Kitchener train to Bramalea.....46 bus to 407 station.....line 1 to VMC....presumably this is quicker if you are going at a time when there is a train from Georgetown (ie. cutting out the 33 bus to Mt Pleasant bit).....so likely around 1 1/2 hours.

Signal priority or not, Georgetown to VMC is not what Zum was built for.

Yep. And that's the kind of trip that would greatly benefit from the regional transit plan. Instead of an hour and 40 minutes, it would be just under one hour - 30 minutes on the train, 20 minutes on the GO bus and a one-stop subway ride.

 

[TOareaFan]

Yep. And that's the kind of trip that would greatly benefit from the regional transit plan. Instead of an hour and 40 minutes, it would be just under one hour - 30 minutes on the train, 20 minutes on the GO bus and a one-stop subway ride.

At certain times of the day it is already ~1 hour.

The above is just a random time I picked.....the 8:09 from Georgetown gets into Bramalea at a time when there is a 20 minute wait for the next "46" bus.....so actual travel time in the above is 49 minutes with an excruciating wait at Bramalea.

Don't know about you but I think that is a pretty competitive time for a trip well described by @innsertnamehere quite well as "commute from a low density exurb to a low density suburb 40km away."

 

[Neutrino]

I'm not a Viva rider but as a frequent driver on Hwy 7 I'll have to say, too, that I've never seen any evidence of signal priority anywhere along the actual BRT. That includes the short single lane under the 404, where signal lights control just the bus traffic. If the lane is clear for the approaching bus, why does it still have to stop at the red light?

I often drive hwy 7 myself - I once went from Keele to Leslie without encountering a single Viva Blue in either direction. This was in the early afternoon. Usually, I see no more than one, which is also really bad.

part of the problem with viva is they made these rapidways trying to piss drivers off as little as possible, that means little to no signal priority for busses and a wide street thats hostile to pedestrians cyclists and transit users. also the stops are way too close. the result is beautiful transit infrastructure being wasted with slow and infrequent service. viva would be much more pleasant if the roads were 2 lanes per direction+cycle lane+rapidway, and if the adjacent high density development were less car oriented

Honestly, how long does it take to allow a bus to scoot through an intersection before the heavy traffic flow resumes? It can't be more than a 30 seconds in most cases. As a driver, this wouldn't bother me at all, especially if I was seeing many of these buses packed with passengers. I dare say drivers are more pissed when they see empty buses going by. A full bus at least shows that it's having an impact/doing something.

As for station spacing, it's quite wide west of Bayview, no?