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YRT/Viva Construction Thread (Rapidways, Terminals)

Bordercollie said:
More like they should have built transit city for that money and it would have been done by now.
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Well... you can blame Rob Ford for that. he was the one who cancelled sheppard, buried ECT and made the mess of scarborough.
Also the recession cut back on projects as well.

You can argue the nuances of whether or not it was overbuilt, but YRT used the money that was given to them into full effect and they did something, rather than TTC just sitting on their hands and flip flopping for a generation.
Then again as I mentioned before. the viva rapidways are future proofed. They do not need to spend significant amounts of money to upgrade to LRT in the future like ECT is doing now. This is more like spending now for the next 50 years, which is
smart spending imo. The cost for doing this same work 30 years down the road will be 5X+. The ridership in hwy 7 and yonge will go up significantly in the next 10-15 years
 
cplchanb said:
Then again as I mentioned before. the viva rapidways are future proofed. They do not need to spend significant amounts of money to upgrade to LRT in the future like ECT is doing now.
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I’ll make a bet that we won’t ever see ridership on the VIVA corridors ever rise to the level where they need an LRT.
 
cplchanb said:
Sure let's revisit this in 15 years. I'm serious about that.
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As am I. As of 2019, VIVA's routes moved an average of 18740 people per day across all 6 of them (or, ~ 3070 per route per day). That's a long, long climb to needing to use LRT capacity.

If you have more detailed stats on a per-route basis I'm curious to hear them.
 
Their routing just needs to be more consistent for the best results, on top of the frequency. Finch is an already established transit hub which makes Viva Blue the easiest contender to gain riders and i’ve seen crowding during most times. I’ve already said briefly that extending Orange to Hwy 50/Gore Rd would easily bring in customers without trying as that area always has crowded ridership.

Green needs to have that Leslie extension and rerouting. Maybe bringing it up to Elgin Mills and then turning onto it to head to Yonge could turn out great, which also provides another way from Richmond Hill to get to the subway via Don Mills. Even Purple could extend itself to the Smartcentres plaza on Copper Creek to bring in residential, and commercial riders as well.
 
allengeorge said:
I’ll make a bet that we won’t ever see ridership on the VIVA corridors ever rise to the level where they need an LRT.
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allengeorge said:
As am I. As of 2019, VIVA's routes moved an average of 18740 people per day across all 6 of them (or, ~ 3070 per route per day). That's a long, long climb to needing to use LRT capacity.

If you have more detailed stats on a per-route basis I'm curious to hear them.
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The thing is the ridership distribution is far from equal. Viva Blue has BY FAR the highest ridership in the system, and this is reflected in the headways - 7.5mins pre-covid compared to say Viva Orange's or Viva Yellow's measly 20 mins.
The following webpage shows the ridership stats in 2017 of YRT's top performing routes: https://view.publitas.com/york-region-transportation-services/2018-transit-initiatives/page/10-11

Viva Blue back then had an average weekday ridership of 17,808 riders (a little over how much the Warden bus gets in Toronto) which is definitely nothing to sneeze at (and Viva Purple gets almost 8k daily riders which makes me ask where you got that 18740 number...) so while it might not be warranting an LRT today, I don't think it unreasonable to think that in 15 years or so as density increases and so does demand, that it might reach a point where an LRT upgrade - at least for that route, is warranted.

There is a joke in York Region about this: YRT consists of 2 routes, Viva Blue and Everything Else.
 
ARG1 said:
The thing is the ridership distribution is far from equal. Viva Blue has BY FAR the highest ridership in the system, and this is reflected in the headways - 7.5mins pre-covid compared to say Viva Orange's or Viva Yellow's measly 20 mins.
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VIVA Blue’s full-day weekday ridership is ~17000 people. In your mind, what’s the point at which an LRT becomes worth it? Noting, of course, that VIVA’s ridership craters over the weekend and outside of rush hours (and associated shoulders).
 
allengeorge said:
VIVA Blue’s full-day weekday ridership is ~17000 people. In your mind, what’s the point at which an LRT becomes worth it? Noting, of course, that VIVA’s ridership craters over the weekend and outside of rush hours (and associated shoulders).
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Well its on a case by case basis, and depends on a multitude of factors. I'd say LRT in this case would be worth it when you begin running busses every 1.5-2 minutes during rush hours, and you're struggling to keep up with the demand
 
ARG1 said:
Well its on a case by case basis, and depends on a multitude of factors. I'd say LRT in this case would be worth it when you begin running busses every 1.5-2 minutes during rush hours, and you're struggling to keep up with the demand
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So, 3.75x-5x current ridership? Thats 63k-85k riders per day?
 
allengeorge said:
So, 3.75x-5x current ridership? Thats 63k-85k riders per day?
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ok that's probably a bit much, maybe 40k riders is reasonable?

A major issue with Viva Blue though is just how long it is - 30km long with much of it running through greenbelt. Now unless we want to force people onto linear transfers at some point, we need to basically justify upgrading the entire line simultaneously at some point.
 
ARG1 said:
ok that's probably a bit much, maybe 40k riders is reasonable?
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Even at 40k we’re assuming that YRT can grow VIVA Blue ridership at ~5-6% per year consistently over the next 15 years. (At 63k it’s 9% per year required growth)

I find that projection doubtful - but I don’t have year-over-year growth numbers just for VIVA Blue. ]FWIW, as of 2020 (?) YRT as a whole grew its ridership by 1.4%.(Cannot find source again)
 
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allengeorge said:
Even at 40k we’re assuming that YRT can grow VIVA Blue ridership at ~5-6% per year consistently over the next 15 years. (At 63k it’s 9% per year required growth)

I find that projection doubtful - but I don’t have year-over-year growth numbers just for VIVA Blue. ]FWIW, as of 2020 (?) YRT as a whole grew its ridership by 1.4%.(Cannot find source again)
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For a covid year that's not that bad.

To be honest, I have no doubt that this could be done. First with the planned development at High Tech and Langstaff Gateway - demand for transit (which Viva Blue serves) will demand substantially. Next if YRT gets their act together (massive if I know) and actually increases frequencies on key routes (Major Mackenzie and 16th Avenue are likely candidates) - they can definitely increase ridership and actually serve transferring people rather than relying entirely on those who live/work along the corridor.
 
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