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York Region Transit: Viva service thread

Wrong, if you make an investment in a rapid transit system, it should be the priority. Imagine if the TTC cans late night subway service in favour of local bus routes just so stops can be closer together for old people.

You are basically arguing that investment in rapid transit is bad. Oh pity all those seniors along Bloor who suffer, they have to walk a few extra blocks just because there is no regular local bus service.

If they want to run more VIVA service then far be it for me to stop them - but you can't ignore the fact that after midnight there aren't enough riders to justify both services under the current performance standards. Either change the standards or eliminate one - and if you're going to eliminate one then keep the one that will provide better service given the context. At 2 AM that's the 99.
 
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Viva is not rapid transit on the same level as the subway, it is really just limited stop buses with fancy stops, during low demand times it is more appropriate to run the local bus lines over the limited stop lines.
This is true, but it's a really bad way to look at a Rapid Transit service.
 
That's what they do at night: close the subway, and run blue night buses on Yonge and Bloor / Danforth.

I was talking regular bus service, not specialized late night service. Last I checked route 99 is not a late night only route. There is no regular bus service as an alternative to either the Yonge and Bloor subway service and you know that already, so stop with the bullshit, seriously.
 
Viva is not rapid transit on the same level as the subway, it is really just limited stop buses with fancy stops, during low demand times it is more appropriate to run the local bus lines over the limited stop lines.

So apparently Yonge does not have enough ridership to support proper BRT service yet somehow people think this is a good place for a subway extension?

The BRT is not unique, if the subway can operate after midnight, then so should VIVA. Yes, demand in York Region is less, but then again a VIVA bus does not have the same capacity as a subway train anyways.
 
Imagine if the TTC cans late night subway service in favour of local bus routes just so stops can be closer together for old people.

so stop with the bullshit, seriously.

Dude, get off your high horse. Your points make no more sense than anyone else's here.

Do I dare imagine what would happen if the TTC canned late night subway service in favour of local bus routes? Oh wait, I just rode the damned thing on my way home at 1am the other night because I needed to get to Finch and the subway stops at Eglinton for the foreseeable future.

Thank god you're not a decision maker in transit planning. I never thought I'd be accused of not wanting rapid transit to expand. You're either not using your head right or you're not expressing your ideas well, because to have a rapid transit service you need to have a foundation service that services those who live in-between. For the time being, the Viva is an expendable "premium" service. The day that the Viva turns into LRT is the day the game changes.
 
I was talking regular bus service, not specialized late night service. Last I checked route 99 is not a late night only route. There is no regular bus service as an alternative to either the Yonge and Bloor subway service and you know that already, so stop with the bullshit, seriously.

Passengers don't care whether you call it regular bus service or specialized late night service. The point is that all-stop bus service operates at late hours when premium service (subway in 416 or VIVA in York) does not run. Not one way around.
 
This sounds like something a long time coming...

http://www.yorkregion.com/article/93265

By David Fleischer
York Region Transit and the TTC are eying a pilot project that could make getting to and from York University a lot easier.

If it goes forward this summer, commuters on both sides of the Toronto-York Region border will be able to take Viva buses from Downsview Station to York University without paying a double fare.

"It's an opportunistic thing," TTC service planner Bill Dawson said.

Even at peak periods, the 48-person Viva Orange buses average only seven riders on the stretch before heading west into Vaughan.

By contrast, the TTC's 196 York University bus averages more than 50 people at peak hours and is at or over capacity virtually all day.

"It's a unique situation. We think it's the only place on the boundary where this would occur, because of York University itself," Mr. Dawson said.

York Region Transit general manager Don Gordon said they floated the idea with TTC some time ago but it took time to negotiate an agreement.

Helping break the logjam was in the interest of Metrolinx, the regional transit authority, that wants to see more seamless cross-border transit.

The pilot project could provide a model to be applied elsewhere, Mr. Gordon said.

It may seem like common sense but the ability to pick up and drop off riders in Toronto has been an ongoing issue.

Riders on Yonge Street may have noticed that when their buses cross Steeles they do not pick up passengers waiting for TTC buses, even though they are all going to Finch Station.

Unlike the Viva Orange buses, however, those buses tend to be relatively full, meaning a similar change there is not in the cards, Mr. Dawson said.

Mr. Gordon agreed, but said something similar could be looked at for the Green line, which terminates at Don Mills station, down the road.

In the meantime, there seems to be no downside for York Region.

"This is a case of us filling empty seats and getting revenue in return," Mr. Gordon said.

Under the terms of the pilot project, TTC and YRT will split revenues 50/50; a benefit of 49-cents per passenger, or about $70,000 for the region's coffers.

As transit becomes more integrated across the border, the old double-fare system is becoming increasingly complex, however.

Already, the TTC and YRT have agreed those boarding the Spadina subway will only have to pay a single fare to travel to Toronto. They will still have to pay a second fare to board a YRT or Viva bus, Mr. Dawson said.

Fare issues are subject to an ongoing review, Mr. Gordon said and simply eliminating the fare boundary would cost both TTC and YRT money.

Some kind of fare-by-distance system could be implemented in the future, but tends to be best suited to rail rahter than bus-based systems, he said.

The policy is due to the license under which YRT operates, forbidding it from doing so and it will require an amendment to allow the pilot.

The pilot is set to launch in August, coinciding with the opening of York's dedicated busway.

Regional council votes on the proposal at its June 25 meeting.
 
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This sounds like something a long time coming...

http://www.yorkregion.com/article/93265

Finally. This is possibly the first step towards more implementations like this in more places, just as the article states.

I think before we do any more transit expansion in the GTA, we need to come up with a solution/alternative for the double fare structure or else we're going to have a lot of people shrugging off the idea of taking transit simply because it costs them $6 each way to get to their destinations. Heck, it's the reason why I'm driving to work these days...
 
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And that map is just a bunch of dots that ignores houses and jobs and schools and stores and street widths and traffic congestion and a hundred other things, all of which matter more than which corridor has more dots...and that map is riddled with dozens, if not hundreds of errors.

Even with the errors and with all the actual context (and trip generators) missing from that map of meaningless dots, it's hard to miss the dots along Bathurst, or Victoria Park, or Lawrence/Dixon, or Kipling...

Or Keele. What's ironic is that the discussion centres around the legitimacy of running an LRT along Finch W. when all of Finch (E & W) could justifibly be converted to LRT. It's one of the only corridors that might actually deserve the LRT.

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What's stopping VIVA from running a request stop program after 12am anyway? Is it some operational thing? Simply change the rules and allow VIVA to operate with request stop service. Really, at that time of night there's not that many people anyway so it's not like you will be inconveniencing a whole bus of people by stopping at certain streets when people ask you to.

However truthfully in the end it doesn't matter what service the riders use as long as there is a service for them to use. I do, agree though that you shouldn't be canning your flagship service and keeping your local, parralell service in place, cancel the local service.

Seniors taking the bus at 1am? come on.
 
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YRT busses on Yonge are full?? Ha...

I'd understand if they were referring to Viva blue / pink (and only then sometimes of the day). The other routes always have extra room - and not just standing room - during peek. The main issue here though is that these buses are not going to finish station...
 
The main issue here though is that these buses are not going to finish station...

More people that live closer to Downsview need to learn that they should go to Downsview, instead of going to Finch. The fault there is partly due to lack of sufficient routes to Downsview in some cases, and also the lack of parking spots at Downsview for those who don't live on or near a bus route that can take them there (and those who prefer to not touch a bus because they're stuck up, etc).

The ridership that lands on Finch comes from a far wider area than most people probably think.
 
More people that live closer to Downsview need to learn that they should go to Downsview, instead of going to Finch. The fault there is partly due to lack of sufficient routes to Downsview in some cases, and also the lack of parking spots at Downsview for those who don't live on or near a bus route that can take them there (and those who prefer to not touch a bus because they're stuck up, etc).

The ridership that lands on Finch comes from a far wider area than most people probably think.

Very true. Part of that reason is because YRT has heavily focused it's routes to serve Finch, for a number of reasons. The other part is the positioning of Finch as a regional node that draws people in. If Downsview had been positioned as a Northwest regional node then the strain on Finch would be lessened. Mind you you can't ignore the density along the Yonge Corridor.

Brampton's Acceleride program should releive some of the strain on Finch (hopefully it terminates at Downsview), but also YRT should be looking at other ways to have buses terminiating at Downview.
 
Very true. Part of that reason is because YRT has heavily focused it's routes to serve Finch, for a number of reasons. The other part is the positioning of Finch as a regional node that draws people in. If Downsview had been positioned as a Northwest regional node then the strain on Finch would be lessened. Mind you you can't ignore the density along the Yonge Corridor.

Brampton's Acceleride program should releive some of the strain on Finch (hopefully it terminates at Downsview), but also YRT should be looking at other ways to have buses terminiating at Downview.

Why Does Brampton's current route into Toronto (I believe it is route 77) terminate at Finch? I simply don't understand why anyone from Brampton who needs to go into Downtown Toronto would need to take Yonge down instead of going to Downsview and going down from there. Isn't that much more logical? With that, I have my doubts that the Acceleride will go to Downsview... But maybe the new York University BRT will change their minds.
 
Why Does Brampton's current route into Toronto (I believe it is route 77) terminate at Finch? I simply don't understand why anyone from Brampton who needs to go into Downtown Toronto would need to take Yonge down instead of going to Downsview and going down from there. Isn't that much more logical? With that, I have my doubts that the Acceleride will go to Downsview... But maybe the new York University BRT will change their minds.

Because it's not Brampton's route. YRT manages the route and Brampton provides half of the service (and most on weekends) under contract.
 
Dude, get off your high horse. Your points make no more sense than anyone else's here.

Do I dare imagine what would happen if the TTC canned late night subway service in favour of local bus routes? Oh wait, I just rode the damned thing on my way home at 1am the other night because I needed to get to Finch and the subway stops at Eglinton for the foreseeable future.

Thank god you're not a decision maker in transit planning. I never thought I'd be accused of not wanting rapid transit to expand. You're either not using your head right or you're not expressing your ideas well, because to have a rapid transit service you need to have a foundation service that services those who live in-between. For the time being, the Viva is an expendable "premium" service. The day that the Viva turns into LRT is the day the game changes.


VIVA Blue is not a secondary bus service on Yonge, it the route 99 is the one that's the expendable secondary service, operating at half the frequency of VIVA Blue at all times. What is so hard to understand about this really? You are not using your head right.
 

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