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York Region Transit: Viva service thread

Its not really calling it frequent, more like they're saying "here are some of the major changes we're making as we're heading to making a frequent network". They state on the same page that the ultimate goal of the program is to get 15 minute frequencies on all of those corridors.

I'm aware; but the pace of improvement is so glacial that they'll achieve their goal in the year 2241

Durham used to have service well below the YRT thresholds, and has improved to offer 15M service, most of the day, 7 days per week on 3 routes and climbing.

Some of those routes were 60M a few years ago.
 
YRT's problem too is they are "increasing" every route from a 27 to 24 minute frequency, which functionally isn't much of an improvement.. over just picking a few high performing routes and bringing them to actual service levels. Start with maybe 3 or 4 routes and give them 10-15 minute frequencies throughout the day.. then work on bringing the other routes up to that, don't just slowly bring down every route's frequency by a minute or two every year, which doesn't deliver substantial benefits or build ridership as effectively.

YRT's service levels continue to absolutely baffle me for what is a relatively dense region with a huge employment base. It makes no sense, and I think speaks more to mismanagement from politicians and service planners than it does to anything to do with urban form, density, or demographics.
 
YRT's problem too is they are "increasing" every route from a 27 to 24 minute frequency, which functionally isn't much of an improvement.. over just picking a few high performing routes and bringing them to actual service levels. Start with maybe 3 or 4 routes and give them 10-15 minute frequencies throughout the day.. then work on bringing the other routes up to that, don't just slowly bring down every route's frequency by a minute or two every year, which doesn't deliver substantial benefits or build ridership as effectively.

YRT's service levels continue to absolutely baffle me for what is a relatively dense region with a huge employment base. It makes no sense, and I think speaks more to mismanagement from politicians and service planners than it does to anything to do with urban form, density, or demographics.
Thing is, they technically did that. YRT has like 4-5 routes that have 10-15 min frequencies: 20, blue, purple (except the split section), yellow, and the 85 (pre covid, although with this new set of changes, the 85+16 will have 12 minute headways in the shared section between Bathurst and Leslie). The problem is York Region does not comprehend the idea that frequency attracts ridership. They have routes like Viva Blue that have ridership because they historically had strong ridership, and every other strong route has ridership because they had enough locations of interest that the dripfeed level of service increases managed to reach the 15 minute mark.
 
I'm aware; but the pace of improvement is so glacial that they'll achieve their goal in the year 2241

Durham used to have service well below the YRT thresholds, and has improved to offer 15M service, most of the day, 7 days per week on 3 routes and climbing.

Some of those routes were 60M a few years ago.

Yes. Durham Region has become the new rising star in the GTHA, as Brampton's service growth has slowed in the last few years before the pandemic hit. Some of the stuff DRT is doing lately, even despite COVID, is really good.
 
Yes. Durham Region has become the new rising star in the GTHA, as Brampton's service growth has slowed in the last few years before the pandemic hit. Some of the stuff DRT is doing lately, even despite COVID, is really good.

Like N1, which I requested YRT to emulate.
 
YRT's problem too is they are "increasing" every route from a 27 to 24 minute frequency, which functionally isn't much of an improvement.. over just picking a few high performing routes and bringing them to actual service levels. Start with maybe 3 or 4 routes and give them 10-15 minute frequencies throughout the day.. then work on bringing the other routes up to that, don't just slowly bring down every route's frequency by a minute or two every year, which doesn't deliver substantial benefits or build ridership as effectively.

YRT's service levels continue to absolutely baffle me for what is a relatively dense region with a huge employment base. It makes no sense, and I think speaks more to mismanagement from politicians and service planners than it does to anything to do with urban form, density, or demographics.
Yes. Durham Region has become the new rising star in the GTHA, as Brampton's service growth has slowed in the last few years before the pandemic hit. Some of the stuff DRT is doing lately, even despite COVID, is really good.
What DRT has done with axing low demand routes, replacing them with on-demand service, then reallocating that service to key routes, is a pretty good idea - better to have a few functional routes than many nonfunctional ones.

I think what Durham has done has to do with how Durham is laid out - it's quite long east to west, but fairly narrow north to south, so very few north-south routes are viable, even north-south arterials.

This actually translates really well to Northern York Region - it's very narrow east to west, but long north to south. Yonge, Bayview, and maybe Bathurst are viable routes, but there are pretty much no viable east-west routes, since they are all too short and don't hit enough important destinations. The result is that almost all routes north of Elgin Mills are either short stub routes or circling neighborhood type routes to nowhere.

Basically all of these perform terribly and many have been suspended for COVID, but honestly I think most of these routes should just get permanently replaced with on-demand, with resources poured into core routes. Same goes for a lot of the other neighborhood routes in southern York too - it seems like YRT likes to try and fill the gaps between arterials, but the reality is with 40min service and circuitous routing it's probably faster to walk or bike to the arterial in most cases. Even TTC doesn't try to fill the gap between every arterial when there are no straight roads and no large apartments to serve.

Here's a list of routes I would ax or truncate in order to improve core routes:
- 87 could be axed
- 23 truncated to RHC instead of Finch
- 82 can probably just be axed, it performs really poorly and doesn't hit any major nodes
- 3 can probably get axed or truncated to between Promenade and Leslie
- 83A can probably get axed
- 40 and 41 completely reworked to reduce one-way loops and shorten/simplify routing
etc. (I could keep going)

Finally, YRT really needs to integrate with GO better, especially the Barrie and Stouffville lines. For some reason YRT seems like the only 905 agency to have this problem. It's crazy how Viva Purple just goes straight past Unionville GO without stopping, or how Viva Yellow stops like 150m away from Newmarket GO, or how so many routes decide to just pass by a GO station without entering it, including some already horribly circuitous routes (e.g. 41 at Markham GO, 40 and 41 at Centennial GO, 32/33A at Aurora GO).
 
The other side of the issue is the ticket prices. YRT has long had most expensive fares of any Ontario transit agency. If they want to attract enough ridership to justify improving service frequency, the first step is to lower fares at least in line with other GTA agencies. You can't be surprised that transit ridership falls off a cliff north of Steeles, when YRT charges so much more than the TTC while providing a far less practical service.

The key here - as well as with improving frequency - is funding. The Region needs to commit more funding to public transport, instead of just dumping it into road widening projects.

The objective that the Region gives YRT needs to change from "lose as little money as possible" to "here is half of our former road widening budget, go carry as many more people as possible" or something like that. York Region already has a lot of Rapidway infrastructure which could easily serve as the network's ridership draw if its service were more frequent, just as the Subway draws ridership to the TTC's bus routes. It's just the annual operating budget that's missing.
 
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YRT also needs to focus on improving the speed of its services through transit signal priority, particularly for VIVA routes. I took Viva Orange for the first time this weekend… it was a 20 min ride, and we spent 7min 50sec (40%) of the trip waiting at red lights…
 
YRT also needs to focus on improving the speed of its services through transit signal priority, particularly for VIVA routes. I took Viva Orange for the first time this weekend… it was a 20 min ride, and we spent 7min 50sec (40%) of the trip waiting at red lights…
Yes, exactly. That's another low-hanging fruit which could improve transit service at no cost, if the Region were willing to accept a few seconds of delay for car drivers at some minor intersections.

In addition to the green extensions and red truncations which are (supposedly) already available for late Viva buses, the Region should permit phase insertion at intersections along rapidways where capacity is not critical (i.e. all minor intersections). If a late bus is waiting or approaching just before the point in the cycle where the left turn phases along Highway 7 would start, a short bus-only phase would first let the bus pass straight through before the signal serves the left turns. This phase would last around 10 seconds (5 seconds green, 3 seconds amber, 2 seconds all-red), and would save buses from waiting through the entire duration of the left turn phase (15-30 seconds).
 
We need service that is like the Ion in Waterloo in terms of transit signal priority, and also at more of the speed/frequency like Zum, although not as over done as that service tends to be because as a fellow Bramptonion, the drivers on these buses don't care if they're too early or not on the schedule which has its major downsides for tight transfer points.
 
YRT also needs to focus on improving the speed of its services through transit signal priority, particularly for VIVA routes. I took Viva Orange for the first time this weekend… it was a 20 min ride, and we spent 7min 50sec (40%) of the trip waiting at red lights…
unfortunately that's just Highway 7, and a lot of large suburban arterials. Major intersections need so many phases to clear vehicles that wait times are ridiculous.
 
We need service that is like the Ion in Waterloo in terms of transit signal priority, and also at more of the speed/frequency like Zum, although not as over done as that service tends to be because as a fellow Bramptonion, the drivers on these buses don't care if they're too early or not on the schedule which has its major downsides for tight transfer points.
From what I have experienced in Waterloo, if that's a good example of TSP, then I think I'm more than justified in all of the bad things I say about TSP 🤣
 
From what I have experienced in Waterloo, if that's a good example of TSP, then I think I'm more than justified in all of the bad things I say about TSP 🤣
I don’t think there’s a “better example” of TSP in Ontario besides that which is really saying something. There’s also the small signal priorities like the bus ramp leading out of Bramalea Terminal, or the Hurontario ramp to Rathburn that both does work for what it is at least.
 
VIVA Orange
1 - Highway 7
2 - Milliken
8 - Kennedy
9 - 9th Line
16 - 16th Avenue
20 - Jane
24 - Woodbine
25 - Major Mackenzie
77 - Highway 7
91/91A/91E - Bayview
98/99 - Yonge

Silly the way YRT uses the same name for separate split routes along one street.
 
I don’t think there’s a “better example” of TSP in Ontario besides that which is really saying something. There’s also the small signal priorities like the bus ramp leading out of Bramalea Terminal, or the Hurontario ramp to Rathburn that both does work for what it is at least.
TTC York University Busway:

I also watched King and John for an hour and 100% of the westbound streetcars eligible for priority (more than 90 sec behind the previous streetcar) passed through without stopping, and IIRC nearly 90% of the eligible eastbound streetcars. That despite King only getting green about 50% of the time. The TTC's system is actually pretty powerful when it's set up properly and there is a fairly long uninterrupted detection area upstream of the stop line (i.e. no closely-spaced signals and no near-side stop). The problem is that those conditions rarely exist in the wild.
 

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