York Region Transit: Viva service thread

[denfromoakvillemilton]

The problem with local service (again) is that nobody's going to use it. You could have the same level of service as the TTC, and ridership would barely change. Most people in the "local" areas of York Region have practically no interest in using public transit, and wouldn't have any interest even if you paid them to use YRT. York Region wasn't designed to be transit-friendly (which is impossible to change in existing communities), very few people have any trouble owning one or two cars, and there are hardly any traffic congestion problems to encourage transit use.

"This BRT thing" is being done because these few corridors are the only places where potential ridership growth might justify the cost of transit improvements.

This is false. York is not in special status away from the rest of the 905.

Local trips is where people are least interested in taking transit, because (A) it's when there's less traffic, and (B) they're likely to be doing things like sports and shopping where transit is extremely inconvenient (especially for multi-stop shopping trips). The people who plan transit (i.e. actual experts) are saying the opposite of what you're saying: rush hour is the time when there's a decent return on investing in improvements to some of the local routes.



Yes. The fact that you're resorting to this line makes me think you don't have much to back up your views.



This is exactly the problem - transit is never going to be competitive with driving on speed, convenience, frequency or reliability. Even if there was a bus meeting every train at Go stations (there often is one already), the average wait of 2-3 minutes is more than whatever time it takes to get into/out of the parking lots, and then you lose a lot more time while the bus stops for pickups/dropoffs and winds inefficiently around local roads that were designed to be lightly used and can't be redesigned.

And even if none of what I said is true, all these Go Transit passengers would still be using cars exclusively outside of rush hour.

Then this should be the case in the other suburbs as well. It is not.

We've been over this at least once before in this thread, but that is utterly absurd. I absolutely acknowledge the car culture in York, but a huge percentage of people would use YRT for many local trips if there was good service. "Hardly any traffic congestion" - have you been to a GO station in York Region during rush hour before? I would bet a huge percentage, >50%, of GO riders at most suburban stations would use local transit exclusively, if it were frequent, reliable, and reasonably quick (keeping in mind a longer trip offsets time getting into parking/looking for a space/leaving the station in the evening, given a good bus loop location/transit priority to bypass entrance/exit congestion).

Agreed. If any of this is true then there is no justification for the the RH extension. In reality, this is not the case.

 

[amnesiajune]

Then this should be the case in the other suburbs as well. It is not.

It is, because the other suburbs have more demand for transit. I'll say this over and over again until you stop denying it... People who live in most of York Region would not use transit unless you made it faster, and cheaper, and more convenient than driving. Outside of a handful of major street corridors, nobody is living in York Region because it's cheaper than Toronto, because it isn't cheaper than Toronto. People are paying more for their home and more in property taxes because they want to be in car-friendly suburbia.

That does make York Region different from Mississauga, Brampton and Durham - those three are places where people often go because they want to own a house but can't afford one in Toronto.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

It is, because the other suburbs have more demand for transit. I'll say this over and over again until you stop denying it... People who live in most of York Region would not use transit unless you made it faster, and cheaper, and more convenient than driving. Outside of a handful of major street corridors, nobody is living in York Region because it's cheaper than Toronto, because it isn't cheaper than Toronto. People are paying more for their home and more in property taxes because they want to be in car-friendly suburbia.

That does make York Region different from Mississauga, Brampton and Durham - those three are places where people often go because they want to own a house but can't afford one in Toronto.

No one is denying anything. York Region has the highest fares and thus the lowest ridership for the least service.

 

[amnesiajune]

YRT could have five minute headways on all its routes, pay their passengers to take the bus, and they'd still have the lowest transit ridership in the GTA.

 

[Disparishun]

It is, because the other suburbs have more demand for transit. I'll say this over and over again until you stop denying it... People who live in most of York Region would not use transit unless you made it faster, and cheaper, and more convenient than driving. Outside of a handful of major street corridors, nobody is living in York Region because it's cheaper than Toronto, because it isn't cheaper than Toronto. People are paying more for their home and more in property taxes because they want to be in car-friendly suburbia.

We moved downtown from York Region about a year ago.

First, you are right that lots of folks in YR are there, not because they are looking for a cheaper house in the GTA and are willing to live further, but because they are exactly where they want to be. The location is not a compromise, it is sought-after.

But I do not think you are right that this is unique to YR. The most obvious counter-example is Oakville, but I imagine that there are others. I think the point is that many ethnic communities are centred in different points in the GTA, and that drives location desirability -- which is different for different folks.

Second, I certainly do not think you are right that most folks who see YR as where they want to be, do so because driving cars is what they want to be doing. Certainly wasn't our case. Isn't the case for lots of folks. They want to be in Vaughan or in Markham or wherever, not downtown Toronto. Does that mean that they have an aversion to public transit as a way to get around? Nope. Some don't. Some do -- likely more, proportionately, than downtown, sure, but we're talking shades of gray here. I'd be surprised to learn that this was massively different for York Region than for other regions, but York is the only one I've lived in.

 

[amnesiajune]

But I do not think you are right that this is unique to YR. The most obvious counter-example is Oakville, but I imagine that there are others.

Oakville's transit service is even worse than York Region's. I was talking more about Mississauga and Brampton (Oshawa too, to a lesser extent).

Second, I certainly do not think you are right that most folks who see YR as where they want to be, do so because driving cars is what they want to be doing. Certainly wasn't our case. Isn't the case for lots of folks. They want to be in Vaughan or in Markham or wherever, not downtown Toronto. Does that mean that they have an aversion to public transit as a way to get around? Nope. Some don't. Some do -- likely more, proportionately, than downtown, sure, but we're talking shades of gray here.

There are definitely people in York Region who will gladly be transit-dependent, but they're generally not in the areas where den wants service to be improved. They're almost all living along the corridors where YRT is already providing frequent-and-improving service - Highway 7, Yonge Street, Major Mackenzie, Bayview, Bathurst & Centre Street. There's also a third group of people who are willing to have one car instead of two and don't live near those corridors, but they're not going to use local transit services either - they're going to be picked up and dropped off with that car at the subway, Go Train or one of those corridors.

 

[wilson_wu]

Articulated buses are coming to Leslie St and Jane St YRT routes.

The articulated Viva buses purchased back in 2005 were planned to be retired this year. They have decided to take a majority of them and refurbish them for YRT-use, extending them an additional 3 years past their life expectancy.

 

[Leo_Chan]

Articulated buses are coming to Leslie St and Jane St YRT routes.

The articulated Viva buses purchased back in 2005 were planned to be retired this year. They have decided to take a majority of them and refurbish them for YRT-use, extending them an additional 3 years past their life expectancy.

They'll be repainted to the YRT not VIVA colour scheme right?

 

[Megaton327]

Articulated buses are coming to Leslie St and Jane St YRT routes.

The articulated Viva buses purchased back in 2005 were planned to be retired this year. They have decided to take a majority of them and refurbish them for YRT-use, extending them an additional 3 years past their life expectancy.

Interesting. Did YRT have any articulated buses on non-Viva routes before this? I don't think I've ever seen one.

 

[cplchanb]

Interesting. Did YRT have any articulated buses on non-Viva routes before this? I don't think I've ever seen one.

correct, this will be the first time its been used for a yrt route.

 

[BMO]

Jane and Leslie are slated to become VIVA light BRT routes soon along witt a route on Major Mackenzie so makes sense.

 

[amnesiajune]

They'll be repainted to the YRT not VIVA colour scheme right?

Presumably yes. That's what they did when they moved some non-articulated VanHool buses from Viva to Vaughan bus routes.

 

[amnesiajune]

Jane and Leslie are slated to become VIVA light BRT routes soon along witt a route on Major Mackenzie so makes sense.

The Major Mackenzie route is going to be two parts. One part is the Leslie bus, which turns west on Major Mack and goes to the hospital. The other part is the Jane bus that turns east and goes to the Go Train station past Yonge.

 

[Leo_Chan]

Well this is confirmed:

The University of Toronto Scarborough route will be going from Cornell Terminal to UTSC. It does not indicate any stops at Markham Centre nor Scarborough Centre.

The most likely routing seems to be Ninth Line/Donald Cousens Parkway, Steeles Ave, Morningside Ave (depending on extension to Steeles), and Ellesmere Rd.

 

[Leo_Chan]

Even though I won't be using this service, DO IT: