Yonge-University-Spadina line – subway rail yard needs strategy

[W. K. Lis]

From the PDF report to be presented at the TTC meeting on December 16, 2009. Click on this link for the report.

It is recommended that the Commission approve the following recommendations noting that the attached report Yonge-University Spadina Line – Subway Rail Yard Needs Strategy was deferred at its meeting of November 17, 2009:

1. Approve the Subway Rail Yard Needs Strategy (SRYNS) to provide sufficient yard capacity to 2030 (based on Option 2A) for the Yonge-University-Spadina (YUS) line noting that functional planning/scope definition to implement the strategy is currently underway and will be reflected in the future TTC Capital Program;
2. Forward this report to York Region and the Town of Richmond Hill for their information concerning the implementation of the Richmond Hill extended tail track (14 trains) and post 2030 Yonge Subway Yard requirements, noting that the Richmond Hill extended tail track is a key component of implementing recommended Option 2A;
3. Forward this report to Metrolinx and the City of Toronto for their information, noting that the full implementation of the SRYNS will impact the TTC Capital Budget and the budget for the Yonge Subway Northern Extension Project;
4. Authorize staff to take the necessary steps to identify a suitable property that could be purchased within the next 10 years to protect for the design and construction of a future storage and maintenance yard on the Yonge Subway side of the YUS line in order to protect the long term/strategic rail yard needs of the TTC beyond 2030 and approve, in principle, the inclusion of funds in the outlying years of the 2011-2020 Capital Program for the purchase of a new yard on the Yonge Subway side of the YUS line to provide staff with the flexibility to purchase a suitable property should one become available for sale; and
5. Endorse staff’s inclusion of a subway rail yard needs analysis for the Bloor-Danforth Subway line to identify long term yard requirements to 2030 and beyond as part of the 2011-2015 Capital Program.

The 5 options mentioned are:

1—Limited Wilson Yard Expansion
2—Full Wilson Yard Expansion
2A—Full Wilson Yard Expansion/Continued use of Davisville Yard for Limited Revenue Service Trains
3—New Yonge Storage and Maintenance Yard
4—New Yonge Storage Yard
5—Same as Option 2 plus Sheppard Subway (Yonge – Downsview)​

The problems of continuing to use Davisville Yard are:

For Davisville Yard, the following operational considerations are currently apparent:
− The existing yard/carhouse is designed for 2 car married pairs not 6 car Toronto Rocket train consists;
− It relies on turn back operations to operate the yard;
− With the Toronto Rocket fleet at Davisville Yard, the number of cars that can be stored/cleaned overnight will be reduced compared to the present capacity due to the 2 car consist track layout;
− The yard is well situated to supply trains to the YUS line but is surrounded by high density residential uses that are sensitive to yard operations;
− It is not considered practical or cost effective to expand Davisville Yard given property constraints. Davisville Yard is constrained by existing apartment buildings to the south and west, the park to the north west, and the existing carhouse/YUS mainline to the north and east. It is not considered practical to extend the existing track arrangement to accommodate 6 car TR train consists or to expand the capacity of the yard in a significant way by acquiring additional property. The displacement of existing yard functions to the west of the existing Carhouse to accommodate additional storage capacity for 6 car trains is also not operationally desirable and is not recommended. As a result, expansion of Davisville Yard was not considered a viable yard expansion strategy.
− With the Toronto Rocket fleet (6 car train consists) and assuming no expansion of Davisville Yard, there will be storage tracks (which are designed for 2 car married pairs) that may be available for other yard functions. The consolidation of the majority of the maintenance/storage of the non-revenue vehicle fleet at Davisville Yard to take advantage of the unused portion of the yard (post Toronto Rocket fleet implementation) was therefore considered a base case for all future strategic yard operations analyzed in the SRYNS.

 

[kEiThZ]

I'd at least feel a tad better about the SELRT (not by much) if they picked option 5 and made the Sheppard subway more useful as a cross-town route.

 

[Ansem]

those idiots just rejected the subway extension...

Those hypocrits don't use public transit on Sheppard West and it shows

 

[Inkarnate]

those idiots just rejected the subway extension...

Those hypocrits don't use public transit on Sheppard West and it shows

Damn straight. Just took the 84 to Sheppard-Yonge from Downsview two hours ago. Both the bus I was in and the one in front (an 84 as well) were packed tighter than coffee in a vacuum-sealed package.

 

[Observer Walt]

A subway across Sheppard West would be desirable, but so are a number of other transit proposals. Several of the Transit City lines, expansion of the Spadina Line up to at least York University, and (let's hope) a Downtown Relief Line, are all higher priority to most people, not to mention other transit projects such as GO lines, and the reno of Union Station. There are only so many dollars to go around.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

a sheppard west subway would have provided a great connection for those who want to go to york U from the east end of the city. i think that even if there were no stations between yonge and downsview, it would still be useful.

 

[smallspy]

Oh, come on people.

You want them to build a subway on a street where the buses run no better than 5 1/2 minutes at rush hours? What's next, a streetcar to your driveway? A bus to your backyard?

How about a little bit of realism.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[junctionist]

Oh, come on people.

You want them to build a subway on a street where the buses run no better than 5 1/2 minutes at rush hours? What's next, a streetcar to your driveway? A bus to your backyard?

How about a little bit of realism.

The idea is to provide a network link between the two arms of the YUS line for efficient travel. If we can build infrastructure to take care of the TTC's practical needs and improve travel in the system, why not?

 

[BMO]

not to mention that the sheppard subway extension west could also get rid of the ridiculous need for a finch LRT est to don mills station...

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Oh, come on people.

You want them to build a subway on a street where the buses run no better than 5 1/2 minutes at rush hours? What's next, a streetcar to your driveway? A bus to your backyard?

How about a little bit of realism.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

If you're going to lecture others about "realism," you really should bother to get your facts straight. Buses between Sheppard-Yonge station and Downsview run every 172 seconds in the am peak. That's right, the buses in question actually run *better* than every 3 minutes. How easy it is to forget/ignore that the 196 overlaps the 84 when you're attempting (and failing) to mock other opinions.

 

[Ansem]

Buses between Sheppard-Yonge station and Downsview run every 172 seconds in the am peak. That's right, the buses in question actually run *better* than every 3 minutes

Take it from a worker using this portion every am and pm peak hours...

IN THEORY but this RARELY occurs...

196B is not a frequent service bus.196A is but not the B. That's a TTC lie and I've requested they post schedules and stop taking people for idiots.
I've seen the 98-85 outperform the 196B way too many times.

The express shows up whenever they feel like it. I complain to the TTC everyweek about the atrocious service on Sheppard West between Downsview and Sheppard-Yonge.

Subway is needed...Period.

1-It's the only way to improve service on that corridor. More bus won't do anything at all. Sheppard West after Yonge is too narrow for LRT and BRT. They are stuck on traffic.

2-Would provide some relief for the Yonge line...Those working near University Avenue or those going to U of T could continue to the Spadina line instead of taking the Yonge line

3-They wouldn't need to build another train yard for RH. They could just expand Wilson yard and this would connect the Yonge line to the Wilson Yard

4-The blue line in Montreal is very succesful since it provides a northern rapid Crosstown linking both ends of the Orange line. Sheppard to Downsview would be as successful

If you think the Sheppard line is OK as it is and that the network embarassing hole between both lines of the YUS is OK, then you're wrong. It's an embarrasment to the TTC and the city of Toronto.

The blue line in Montreal proved that it works and its succesful. Bus service on Jean-Talon is excellent but is limited due to the street being too narrow. Subway was the only solution. Sheppard and Jean-Talon have a very similar situation.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Yes, buses sometimes bunch and, shockingly, they may not always stick to the schedule. The TTC can't control the frequency of bus routes like they were Wonderland rides.

Not that anyone can actually know what practical frequencies and real typical wait times are unless they stand at Sheppard station and watch buses come and go for a solid hour, mind you.

 

[rbt]

those idiots just rejected the subway extension...

Aren't you one of those people that bitches about how the TTC wastes money?

The deadhead savings from a Sheppard West were on the order of $2Million per year. Surely you don't want the TTC to spend $XBillion to save $2Million per year.

If Sheppard West is needed it will be built due to ridership but even Lastman, who campaigned for Sheppard subway for decades, was unable to justify it West of Yonge.

 

[taal]

Take it from a worker using this portion every am and pm peak hours...

IN THEORY but this RARELY occurs...

196B is not a frequent service bus.196A is but not the B. That's a TTC lie and I've requested they post schedules and stop taking people for idiots.
I've seen the 98-85 outperform the 196B way too many times.

The express shows up whenever they feel like it. I complain to the TTC everyweek about the atrocious service on Sheppard West between Downsview and Sheppard-Yonge.

Subway is needed...Period.

1-It's the only way to improve service on that corridor. More bus won't do anything at all. Sheppard West after Yonge is too narrow for LRT and BRT. They are stuck on traffic.

2-Would provide some relief for the Yonge line...Those working near University Avenue or those going to U of T could continue to the Spadina line instead of taking the Yonge line

3-They wouldn't need to build another train yard for RH. They could just expand Wilson yard and this would connect the Yonge line to the Wilson Yard

4-The blue line in Montreal is very succesful since it provides a northern rapid Crosstown linking both ends of the Orange line. Sheppard to Downsview would be as successful

If you think the Sheppard line is OK as it is and that the network embarassing hole between both lines of the YUS is OK, then you're wrong. It's an embarrasment to the TTC and the city of Toronto.

The blue line in Montreal proved that it works and its succesful. Bus service on Jean-Talon is excellent but is limited due to the street being too narrow. Subway was the only solution. Sheppard and Jean-Talon have a very similar situation.

hmm, go to the TTC's website - I've never seen any lies regarding the frequency of the 196B ... heck even 'students' at YorkU know it doesn't come as often as the 196A ... they're not meant to ... there's no lieing going on here ...

Bunching is a completely different story. Anyway, it's actually a lot better now (I've ridden it 10+ times) since the busway has opened. It can still bunch on sheppard though.

 

[Chuck]

In theory, the TTC might be able to build their subway yard in the hydro right of way at Yonge and 7. But if that is not a permitted land use, where else do they intend to find a property dozens of acres in size along Yonge? Even if there were such a property, the land value would be exorbitant, especially if the subway is extended north.

The cost of acquiring such a large property and building a new yard from scratch would easily run into the hundreds of millions of dollars considering that the Mt. Dennis garage cost $100M a few years ago. With TBMs already purchased and in use for the Spadina extension, the cost of diverting one of them east along Sheppard should be incrementally small. If no stations are built, the TTC could easily build a bored tunnel for less than $100M per kilometre. And since the Sheppard tracks already extend half way to Bathurst, the distance is only 3 km.

The cost of upgrading Wilson and extending Sheppard West with a Spadina TBM should be comparable to building a brand new yard along Yonge. That doesn't even consider the network benefits of the connection, nor the advantage of not having a massive yard along a transit friendly portion of Yonge.