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Yonge & Steeles (Markham)

C

Chuck

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Markham's development plan for the Yonge and Steeles area has been released. View it here

The highlights are as follows:

-complete redevelopment of the properties on the east side of Yonge St. to Dudley between Steeles and Elgin.
-properites on the east side of Yonge between Elgin and Centre St. already fall under the Thornhill development plan, which also calls for medium to high density redevelopment.
-500+ people and jobs/ha at Yonge and Steeles
-about 500 people plus jobs/ha at Yonge and Clark
-200-300 people plus jobs/ha along the rest of Yonge, within 500m of a subway station
-the existing street grid, which very much resembles the NYCC street grid, will form the basis of the development area

At this rate, a continuous street wall on Yonge between Steeles and Centre St. is shaping up on the Markham side of Yonge St. Markham at least is getting ready for the subway.
 
So is this: (http://www.urbantoronto.ca/showthread.php?t=928) proposal at Yonge & Doncaster included in the plan?

3700 units is a fair amount, even if doesn't seem *quite* high enough, especially since there'll almost certainly be 30 storey towers south of Steeles and on the Vaughan side, and since the plan will remove some residences, like all the low-rise buildings between Clark and Elgin. But...as they also plan to add 3200 new jobs, retail, parkland, etc., the whole area could turn out fine. If they can achieve a moderately hefty built up neighbourhood, it'll be delightful. The "retail ground floor" is recommended to have "sidewalk access + transparency," so there will hopefully be no pre-cast cubbyholes suitable only for dry cleaners or Subways. I believe Markham is capable not just of planning for this kind of stuff, but of actually implementing it...Vaughan, however...

Vaughan already has condos and some surprisingly close-packed houses along Clark from Yonge to past Bathurst/Promenade, so they'll certainly contribute to the ridership there. But I wonder how long the huge car dealership zone will stay. The houses on Crestwood are also begging to be replaced, but they've been partially McMansionized already so people might fight it. I'd expect no comprehensive Yonge plan for the Vaughan side, just a series of tall condos (not that that'd be terrible, it'd just undermine the Markham side of the street).

As for the Thornhill plan, it reminds me that no matter how many times I'm up there, I'm always surprised by how few old buildings are actually left on Yonge itself.
 
I actually think that the Viva BRT on Yonge should be built since it would improve the look of the street. Thornhill centre is a complete joke. The retirees in the area want to maintain it's charm and character. I say pure BS. There is no character or charm to this lost burg. The random house which remain are scaterred and the Yonge St has random shops but no pedestrian traffic and I am still surprised how they stay in business.

Any development would be an improvement, but they must build the subway and the BRT ASAP as the traffic on Yonge is horrendous. I doubt anything will change on Crestwood, as those are wealthy home owners. It is interesting to see how long the giant car dealership will stay there. Probably not long after the subway's construction.
 
The former Northtown Ford is going to be the first to go, I think.

I've heard that place is close to getting re-developed for a while. Vaughan is doing its own study, parallel to Markham's.

And there are probably more heritage buildings than you think along Yonge but they have been so poorly integrated that there is no focus to them. Whether that will ever change, we shall see.

It's worth noting that the map shows likely subway locations which are the closest thing we've seen "official" designations. Their guess is that it will go at Clark Ave.
 
If this Yonge infill is bound to happen it's very likely we'll be getting far more than 3 stops on the extension...

Cummer/Drewry/Newtonbrook,
Steeles,
Clark,
Centre,
Royal Orchard,
Lanstaff/RHC.
 
There's very few heritage buildings on Yonge, mostly strip plazas; that's what'll enable all kinds of infill to take place fronting Yonge.

Yes, Clark was always going to have a station...there's no reason not to put one there. I also find it highly improbable that there wouldn't be one at Royal Orchard - the trend lately with stop spacing has been to add more than the bare minimum and not putting one there would leave a gap of almost 3km. If they don't put one in Olde Thornhill at Centre, buses that run along Centre and John will still serve the area with a quick and short connection to Clark station.

At this point I'm not 100% sure they'll add one at Cummer...it'd be well-used, sure, but it might be considered too close to Finch and 'not worth it.' On the other hand, the subway extension will mean Steeles buses stop running past Cummer, so there will certainly be demand for a station. It'd strongly support more redevelopment, too. If they build it, it must go north of Cummer with exits at Wedgewood/Connaught.

edit:
Ed007Toronto said:
Time for Toronto to do the same for the area from Finch to Steeles.
Click to expand...

I don't support an entirely 'comprehensive' plan for Yonge north of Finch - they should continue letting the area develop one condo at a time to prevent master-planned sterility.

One problem is that the strip malls north of Finch mostly have parking in front of them...ideally, these buildings should be kept because they're the ones things restaurants and many independent stores can survive in, but they really do wreck the street.
 
At this point I'm not 100% sure they'll add one at Cummer...it'd be well-used, sure, but it might be considered too close to Finch and 'not worth it.' On the other hand, the subway extension will mean Steeles buses stop running past Cummer, so there will certainly be demand for a station. It'd strongly support more redevelopment, too. If they build it, it must go north of Cummer with exits at Wedgewood/Connaught.
Click to expand...

Well the distance between Finch and Cummer is no greater than the spacing between Sheppard and NYCC so I don't see why it couldn't be included. But yes a "Cummer" stop would have to be somewhat north of the intersection to justify it. I imagine the portion north of Royal Orchard could laregly be ran above ground, veering into the rail corridor and having a stop right in between the GO station and the VIVA station.
 
I don't support an entirely 'comprehensive' plan for Yonge north of Finch - they should continue letting the area develop one condo at a time to prevent master-planned sterility.
Click to expand...

Oh I'm not in favour of that either. But I was looking at the Markham renders for Yonge and Steeles which includes all those single family dwellings on the Toronto side of Steeles. They should all go.
 
Finch is closer to Cummer than Sheppard is to North York Centre. There's also not much at Cummer (but there will be...the condos are marching north). If they put Steeles station south of Steeles, people can use the Cummer bus from Finch to get to Cummer (and walk a few blocks north), so they don't *need* a station at Cummer. The main determinant might be the Cummer and Drewry bus routes...there's very few places where bus routes intersect with a subway line and no station exists (Yonge Blvd, Birchmount).

A Cummer station would see at least 20,000 riders by 2020, ramping up to perhaps 30,000 depending on how many condos go in.

Ed007Toronto said:
Oh I'm not in favour of that either. But I was looking at the Markham renders for Yonge and Steeles which includes all those single family dwellings on the Toronto side of Steeles. They should all go.
Click to expand...

OK...yes, I agree with you, and I think they will go on their own, everything west of Dumont, anyway, though the city should rezone those blocks to ensure they go. I wonder what Beecroft/Doris road arrangements would work north of Finch?
 
I don't support an entirely 'comprehensive' plan for Yonge north of Finch - they should continue letting the area develop one condo at a time to prevent master-planned sterility.
Click to expand...

I don't think that there is a risk of master-planned communities popping up along Yonge St. Unlike greenfield subdivisions or communities such as Markham Centre or Cityplace, the developer is not given one massive piece of empty land to build on. So much has to be demolished, and there are so many existing streets that it makes perfect sense to parcel off the land along Yonge to different developers.

It really is a shame though that this plan will be duplicated in its entirety not only by Vaughan, but by Toronto too. It would have made a lot more sense to recognize that the world doesn't change depending on what corner of Yonge and Steeles you're standing on. One unified plan would have been more logical, but then again that's too much to ask for given the "divide and conquer" attitude that the Province instilled in the 1970s by creating separate regional governments.
 
There's no real risk of greenfield-type master-planned communities, but there is still a risk of the area being over-planned. Yonge south of Finch works largely because it's a bit random, with a host of different developers building one piece at a time in a dozen different styles...hopefully, they'll be able to add an element of organic randomness north of Finch, too.
 
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