Yahoo! Canada Launches Zoocasa Real Estate Application for House-Hunting Canadians

[TOphotog]

Migos, I'll try to explain it. We're not accessing this information, this is OUR information - we've created it, and uploaded it. We created the MLS system, we pay to run it, support it and access it. It's like the oil industry having a private website that contains all the information for all gas stations throughout the country on what they sold gas for that day. Just because the oil industry created the site, paid for the site and gathered the information doesn't mean the general public can access it just because 'we want to'. There are plenty of sites where you have to pay for accessing their data.

Getting back to real estate: the general public can find out public information (the sale price of closed properties) in many ways, as stated above. The sale price of a property not yet closed is covered by the Privacy Act. You must have all parties consent to the release of this information. Without that, it's not accessible. Regular Joe can access all public information. As mentioned, one method Regular Joe can use is Teranet for $3,000+ per year. Now you start to see the costs which realtors pay to run their business... We negotiate better rates due to our large numbers, but we still pay for this information.

We pay to run our MLS system. No money comes from Joe Public. It's a private industry system and it contains confidential information. When people sell their houses, they don't stick a sign in the lawn saying "Listed $869,000, Sold $820,000". Why not? Because the deal might not close and they don't want everyone knowing. Same reason why we don't allow access to all our data on MLS. BTW, we don't have any additional access to private sales (not involving a realtor) than the general public does. We pay to access that information, and so can you.

 

[Migos]

Migos, I'll try to explain it. We're not accessing this information, this is OUR information - we've created it, and uploaded it. We created the MLS system, we pay to run it, support it and access it. It's like the oil industry having a private website that contains all the information for all gas stations throughout the country on what they sold gas for that day. Just because they created the site, paid for the site and gathered the information doesn't mean the general public can access it just because 'we want to'. There are plenty of sites where you have to pay for accessing their data.

Getting back to real estate: the general public can find out public information (the sale price of closed properties) in many ways, as stated above. The sale price of a property not yet closed is covered by the Privacy Act. You must have all parties consent to the release of this information. Without that, it's not accessible. Regular Joe can access all public information. As mentioned, one method Regular Joe can use is Teranet for $3,000+ per year. Now you start to see the costs which realtors pay to run their business... We negotiate better rates due to our large numbers, but we still pay for this information, and we pay to run our MLS system. No money comes from Joe Public.

I understand the argument that Realtors own MLS. However, that's not what is at issue. There is plenty of anti-competitive legislation that covers that and is beyond the scope of this thread. At the end of the day, saying we own the information and hence don't need to share it will be a very difficult argument to make when you are in a monopoly position.

If sold but not closed info is covered by Privacy Act, why can other Realtors not involved access it? If I sell my house, I don't want random Realtors knowing this information, the same way I wouldn't want Joe Public. You can't claim it's a privacy issue on one hand but then say it's OK for Realtors to access it since they paid for the system (in reality their customers paid for the system).

 

[nrb]

Migos, I'll try to explain it. We're not accessing this information, this is OUR information - we've created it, and uploaded it. We created the MLS system, we pay to run it, support it and access it. It's like the oil industry having a private website that contains all the information for all gas stations throughout the country on what they sold gas for that day. Just because they created the site, paid for the site and gathered the information doesn't mean the general public can access it just because 'we want to'. There are plenty of sites where you have to pay for accessing their data.

Getting back to real estate: the general public can find out public information (the sale price of closed properties) in many ways, as stated above. The sale price of a property not yet closed is covered by the Privacy Act. You must have all parties consent to the release of this information. Without that, it's not accessible. Regular Joe can access all public information. As mentioned, one method Regular Joe can use is Teranet for $3,000+ per year. Now you start to see the costs which realtors pay to run their business... We negotiate better rates due to our large numbers, but we still pay for this information, and we pay to run our MLS system. No money comes from Joe Public.

That's no different than other financial market information that is publicly available. All financial market information is easily accessible but they've managed to create sustainable business model based on charging for real time prices. The only motivation behind keeping the information out of the public realm is to benefit agents by keeping captive information. There's no reason why there shouldn't be some kind of government mandated disclosure as it would increase the transparency and accountability of the market. As it is right now it's open to manipulation.

 

[TOphotog]

The financial market information is different than real estate market information. What a stock sells for at 11:59AM is a finite number. Our 'sale' information is for a pending sale, not a closed sale. We realtors can access this to do up to date CMA's. In reality, our customers don't pay for the MLS system. We pay out of pocket for this on an annual basis. If you want to stretch that to the point where my clients pay me and then out of my paycheques, I pay for the system, so be it.

What if you advertised to all the sellers out there that you, John Q. Public, want to set up your own data system separate from ours. You want them to send you all the information about their sale, what was included, when it closes, etc. You can have people who want access to this information pay you a fee. How many sellers are going to give this to you? None! Sellers want this information about others before they're ready to sell (even privately), but once they're sold, they want the information to remain private. Ask them why.

 

[Migos]

The financial market information is different than real estate market information. What a stock sells for at 11:59AM is a finite number. Our 'sale' information is for a pending sale, not a closed sale. We realtors can access this to do up to date CMA's. In reality, our customers don't pay for the MLS system. We pay out of pocket for this on an annual basis. If you want to stretch that to the point where my clients pay me and then out of my paycheques, I pay for the system, so be it.

Actually, stock prices are reported as bids and asks. These are not final sales.

What if you advertised to all the sellers out there that you, John Q. Public, want to set up your own data system separate from ours. You want them to send you all the information about their sale, what was included, when it closes, etc. You can have people who want access to this information pay you a fee. How many sellers are going to give this to you? None! Sellers want this information about others before they're ready to sell (even privately), but once they're sold, they want the information to remain private. Ask them why.

What is private? Does that mean that only the people involved in the transaction know? Or does it mean that every single Realtor and anybody they want to share the info with knows?

There is absolutely no reason a Realtor not involved in a transaction should know anything more about it than Joe Public. That is my point.

 

[TOphotog]

When we list a property, the seller agrees that realtors can share this information inside our network (MLS). They have agreed to it. We are bound by our rules and regulations as to what we can do with this information, and we are bound by the Privacy Act. If the seller wanted Joe Public to have this information, they'd have to release it - not us. If you see a sold sign on your street, go knock on their front door and ask them if they'll tell you. Let me know what they say. I know what they're going to say - it's none of your business.

We didn't write the rules of the Privacy Act, we're just following the rules. Once the property sale is finalized (closes), Joe Public can access the sale price in many ways. Why do you need to know the sale price of a property before it closes?

 

[Migos]

When we list a property, the seller agrees that realtors can share this information inside our network (MLS). They have agreed to it. We are bound by our rules and regulations as to what we can do with this information, and we are bound by the Privacy Act. If the seller wanted Joe Public to have this information, they'd have to release it - not us. If you see a sold sign on your street, go knock on their front door and ask them if they'll tell you. Let me know what they say. I know what they're going to say - it's none of your business.

We didn't write the rules of the Privacy Act, we're just following the rules. Once the property sale is finalized (closes), Joe Public can access the sale price in many ways. Why do you need to know the sale price of a property before it closes?

Why do realtors not involved in the transaction need to know the sale price of a property before it closes? You keep repeating the same points but are missing the elephant in the room.

 

[TOphotog]

I already answered it earlier. To do proper Comparative Market Analysis Reports for our clients. We need to establish up to date market values - this is our job. THIS is why we need it, and sellers have given us permission to use it for that purpose. They haven't given us permission to release to Joe Public. If Joe Public wants to know, he'll have to knock on their door and ask. It's no elephant in the room - I already answered it. You haven't answered my question - why do YOU want the information?

 

[Migos]

I already answered it earlier. To do proper Comparative Market Analysis Reports for our clients. We need to establish up to date market values - this is our job. THIS is why we need it, and sellers have given us permission to use it for that purpose. They haven't given us permission to release to Joe Public. If Joe Public wants to know, he'll have to knock on their door and ask. It's no elephant in the room - I already answered it. You haven't answered my question - why do YOU want the information?

So it's not an issue of privacy at all. It's an issue of "we own this info you don't". And the government will eventually crack down on that type of anti-competitive behaviour.

To claim that it's private info but every realtor can access it (or anybody who pays subscription fees or asks a realtor) is laughable at best.

 

[TOphotog]

Migos, you and I keep going around in circles. It IS private information that belongs to the seller of the property. YOU cannot access it through subscription or any other method UNTIL it is a closed deal. Before that, the seller has given us licensed realtors who have legal access to the MLS system permission to use it for certain purposes, one of them being CMA's. They haven't given us permission to publish it, unless that is in a separate signed authorization. Hence, the flyers saying "I just sold 123 Main Street for 103% of asking". This IS the issue of privacy - what sellers have given us permission to do with their private information before the deal closes. After the deal closes, it's public information. I never said we own the information, I said we own the MLS system. Certain information on our system is owned by the seller, and it's private until the deal closes.

Again, I will ask... why do YOU want the information?