Why Streetcars Make People Crazy! (Picture)

[hawc]

Let me just preface this by saying, I'm a huge fan of public transit. I think it's good. I think it's necessary. I think it's the future. I use it all the time.

However, this is what makes normal sane motorists and transit riders CRAZY and it happens on an almost daily basis somewhere in the downtown core. Why does this happen, and why isn't this an arugment for electric buses which aren't as romantic and picturesque as streetcars but can at least drive around blockages.

Taken looking West on King towards Spadina at 9:15AM. 5 streetcars stacked up behind one another. Very typical of this area in particular.

 

[khris]

This is why I think all LRT should have it's own road, and not be mixed with cars.

 

[taal]

Yep, and couple this with TTC's typical bunching problems and you can get a huge mess.

My only argument is the TTC seems to do a piss poor job of managing bus routes with high frequencies i.e. a lot of bunching occurs. That buses wouldn't be much better less the case of an accident.

So if you ignore the accident cases, which aren't that rare actually, I doubt buses would be any better as the TTC can't do that well either.

 

[Thoughtless Miscreant]

Why isn't this an argument for buses? Because buses aren't magic and they can't fly over traffic.

Toronto's streetcar routes are some of the most heavily used routes in the city, and they travel through mixed traffic on some of the busiest roads in the city. It doesn't matter what type of vehicle you put in that situation, you're going to get some degree of bunching.

 

[hawc]

Buses aren't magic and they can't fly over traffic.

Sure, if the entire road is jammed then buses will be stuck too (duh), but if the road is otherwise clear (just one thing obstructing one lane) buses can drive AROUND it. Streetcars just get bogged up behind each other.

The only argument against electric buses is that they don't have the same capacity as streetcars.

 

[taal]

Sure, if the entire road is jammed then buses will be stuck too (duh), but if the road is otherwise clear (just one thing obstructing one lane) buses can drive AROUND it. Streetcars just get bogged up behind each other.

The only argument against electric buses is that they don't have the same capacity as streetcars.

Well the question is how often does it occur ... and how many alternative routes are in place ... this does happen quite often I find, but on a given route it's not that common. Generally the TTC has a lot of short turn options in place. So you'll see a bunch of them stuck, but the rest will be okay as they divert.

 

[hawc]

Generally the TTC has a lot of short turn options in place. So you'll see a bunch of them stuck, but the rest will be okay as they divert.

And what happens to the people waiting for a streetcar a few blocks away on the other side of the blockage as the other streetcars endlessly divert behind the blockage.

I'm actually genuinly curious, what is the benefit of streetcars over electric busses other than increased capacity? Is there any other benefit?

I'd love to know.

 

[Electrify]

First, I just had to post this picture...

Second, the biggest flaw with Toronto's streetcars, besides operating in mixed traffic, is that they are just buses on rails. In the late 70s and early 80s when cities began to reinvest in light rail, they made trains several times longer than traditional streetcars. In fact, Toronto's streetcars are some of the last traditional sized streetcars constructed.

The new streetcars will turn our streetcar routes into an ultra-light metro system, all with very little investment required to our current tram infrastructure.

 

[hawc]

Haha, your picture totally beats my picture. Cheers to you sir!

 

[Justin10000]

The only argument against electric buses is that they don't have the same capacity as streetcars.

I cannot believe I am doing this, but if electric trolley buses are so much better than streetcars, why did the TTC scrap the trollye system in 1992, and put out a report rejecting a new system? Just saying..

(I personally like ETB's, but I am tired of these ignorant comments from people who think replacing a tried and true technology with buses will suddenly improves everyone's commute)

 

[gabe]

 

[Justin10000]

picture fight!!

 

[hawc]

I am tired of these ignorant comments from people who think replacing a tried and true technology with buses will suddenly improves everyone's commute

Alright smarty pants, explain to me why streetcars are better than ETBs (besides increased capacity).

Streetcars are better than electric buses because:

1)

2)

3)

4)

5)

Please fill in the blanks.

 

[noctis]

subway is the way to go y'all! but since we got no cash, dun even think about it...

personally, i am not a big fan of streetcars either...i dun care if it's LRT or just plain streetcars, they all take up space! besides, WE DON'T NEED THEM!

whatever the ford brothers are doin now, i hope they keep doin their best. hopefully we can find some cash and build subways. i am tired of this sh**, been living here for 16 years and still nothing has changed...

please, learn from other countries: hong kong, taiwan, etc. use them as role models

 

[Justin10000]

^^Both Hong Kong and Taiwan have tram systems. Yeesh.

You guys do not get there shouldn't be a debate of what technology is better. It's not a one size fits all deal. Great transit have both streetcars AND ETB, as well as subways, and LRT. You cannot just have a system of buses, and subways. History has shown you need intermediate capacity, which streetcars provide.