AKS
Senior Member
Tim Horton's pay $10? :O I thought minimum wage is around $8?
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Why do police have to stand at construction sites?
- Thread starter Eug
- Start date
scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
...because if you gave them a chair, they'd fall asleep.
Eug
Senior Member
So as of now, we have three posts about police and chairs. 
ididthat
New Member
I love the little quips about the whole off-duty at construction sites thing.
I do have a couple of comments on this though. Even if I believe that I do not agree that the police have the right to dictate the number of officers that might be required for the 'paid-duty' services that it provides, it is an essential part of the operation.
For those who are not aware, the use of 'paid-duty' officers is important at sites where traffic is present, because it is against the law to not stop for a police officer when directed to do so. A security guard has no lawful presence on public lands, exempt for municipal security on municipal lands. Therefore, they too have no powers on roadways. Hence for a matter of public safety, police officers are required.
I would also like to point out that crossing guards (as was mentioned earlier) are also members of the police service in Toronto. In a case like this though, it doesn't take a genius to realize that when you are driving past a school at 3:30 in the afternoon, that there are hazards that as a driver you have to be aware of. This awareness might not be the same while driving past a construction site where an overhead crane might be lifting a heavy skid of drywall or a large elevator motor which could potentially fall and kill someone.
For those that have noticed, I used 'paid-duty' not off duty. These officers are working, on behalf of the police service, which is being paid (majority of salary) by the contractor and not the tax payers. Therefore, it makes sense that they are in uniform while doing so. I refuse to classify them as off-duty because as a police officer, they are technically never off duty, especially whilst in uniform preforming some sort of function (useful or otherwise).
I do have a couple of comments on this though. Even if I believe that I do not agree that the police have the right to dictate the number of officers that might be required for the 'paid-duty' services that it provides, it is an essential part of the operation.
For those who are not aware, the use of 'paid-duty' officers is important at sites where traffic is present, because it is against the law to not stop for a police officer when directed to do so. A security guard has no lawful presence on public lands, exempt for municipal security on municipal lands. Therefore, they too have no powers on roadways. Hence for a matter of public safety, police officers are required.
I would also like to point out that crossing guards (as was mentioned earlier) are also members of the police service in Toronto. In a case like this though, it doesn't take a genius to realize that when you are driving past a school at 3:30 in the afternoon, that there are hazards that as a driver you have to be aware of. This awareness might not be the same while driving past a construction site where an overhead crane might be lifting a heavy skid of drywall or a large elevator motor which could potentially fall and kill someone.
For those that have noticed, I used 'paid-duty' not off duty. These officers are working, on behalf of the police service, which is being paid (majority of salary) by the contractor and not the tax payers. Therefore, it makes sense that they are in uniform while doing so. I refuse to classify them as off-duty because as a police officer, they are technically never off duty, especially whilst in uniform preforming some sort of function (useful or otherwise).
scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
So as of now, we have three posts about police and chairs.
All of which are more valuable than your post about nothing. You think anybody reads threads before posting?
Speaking of things about nothing, we actually have two posts about chairs and one post about falling asleep in said chairs (see the Seinfeld episode 'The Maestro').
A more efficient use of the off-duty cops' time and idle body would be to stand in line for hot dogs for the construction workers so they can finish the damn construction sooner.
golodhendil
Active Member
I see police standing at construction/work sites in Boston all the time (even when it's a cable company sending workers down a manhole). Don't know about the state laws here, but at least it's not a phenomenon unique to Toronto.
TKTKTK
Senior Member
Does the Police force charge a premium for the use of their officers? It would strike me as a way to pad operating budgets (rather than pay officers higher wages for the 'overtime' non-work).
adma
Superstar
Given the location, I'd be tempted to chat up the cops just to hear their broad top-o'-the-mornin'-to-ya Irish accents. Don't tell me they wear custodian helmets and carry billy clubs as well
Voltz
Senior Member
The contractors who hire paid duty officers pay the officers by the hour, and the service collects an additional 15% administration fee, the service also charges for the use of police vehicles and equipment. So yes this does contribute to the operating budgets.
wonderboy416
Active Member
Even when police are optional (ie. a concert, sporting event etc) it's often better to fork out the extra $ for a paid-duty copper than security. Why?
If there's a violent incident and police are on hand, the event organizer can deflect liability. If they only have rent-a-cops they can still be liable for what happens at their venues.
If there's a violent incident and police are on hand, the event organizer can deflect liability. If they only have rent-a-cops they can still be liable for what happens at their venues.
golodhendil
Active Member
LOL no, the BoPo wears the same type of attire as any other general North American city police.
ShonTron
Moderator
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Chicago cops look like police auxiliary with the checkered hats and the all-but-gone powder blue uniforms.
Eug
Senior Member
Cops as props? Off-duty police cash in on private 'paid duty'
The paid duty wage is almost double what a constable with four years experience earns on duty – $37.40 an hour – patrolling a dangerous area or answering a 911 call.
In addition, Toronto Police tacks on an extra 15 per cent "administration fee" that the force says is a "cost recovery" scheme to help pay for the office and staff handling requests as well as the use of taxpayer-purchased police equipment on paid duty. "It's at no cost to the city, to the taxpayer," said Witty.
But when the city or a provincial ministry or public-owned entity like Toronto Hydro is doing the hiring, it does cost the taxpayer.
Sgt. Don Ryan, the man in charge of paid duty assignments, said there's a reason for this: "A civilian cannot do what we do."
In Calgary and Ottawa, where paid duty costs are significantly lower, civilians and inanimate objects do the job of Toronto officers. On a recent afternoon, a utility company work crew set up in the middle of a busy four-lane road, right outside a Calgary police station. The crew used pylons and yellow safety lights but no officer. "(Our system) appears to work," said police force spokesman Kevin Brookwell. "It has been working for some time."
In Vancouver, where construction and road maintenance proliferates in the run-up to the Olympics, work crews are allowed to use their own "flagmen" to direct traffic with "Slow" and "Stop" signs. Vancouver officers on paid duty work collect a lot less than Toronto cops. In 2007, the last year for which data is available, they got only $1.3 million.
Vancouver police Const. Lindsey Houghton said that in the case of a large city construction project with significant traffic impact, the city uses "special traffic constables" who have authority to arrest and lay charges and who carry batons and pepper spray but no guns. The special constables get paid $33 an hour, about half the Toronto rate.
The paid duty wage is almost double what a constable with four years experience earns on duty – $37.40 an hour – patrolling a dangerous area or answering a 911 call.
In addition, Toronto Police tacks on an extra 15 per cent "administration fee" that the force says is a "cost recovery" scheme to help pay for the office and staff handling requests as well as the use of taxpayer-purchased police equipment on paid duty. "It's at no cost to the city, to the taxpayer," said Witty.
But when the city or a provincial ministry or public-owned entity like Toronto Hydro is doing the hiring, it does cost the taxpayer.
Sgt. Don Ryan, the man in charge of paid duty assignments, said there's a reason for this: "A civilian cannot do what we do."
In Calgary and Ottawa, where paid duty costs are significantly lower, civilians and inanimate objects do the job of Toronto officers. On a recent afternoon, a utility company work crew set up in the middle of a busy four-lane road, right outside a Calgary police station. The crew used pylons and yellow safety lights but no officer. "(Our system) appears to work," said police force spokesman Kevin Brookwell. "It has been working for some time."
In Vancouver, where construction and road maintenance proliferates in the run-up to the Olympics, work crews are allowed to use their own "flagmen" to direct traffic with "Slow" and "Stop" signs. Vancouver officers on paid duty work collect a lot less than Toronto cops. In 2007, the last year for which data is available, they got only $1.3 million.
Vancouver police Const. Lindsey Houghton said that in the case of a large city construction project with significant traffic impact, the city uses "special traffic constables" who have authority to arrest and lay charges and who carry batons and pepper spray but no guns. The special constables get paid $33 an hour, about half the Toronto rate.
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urbandreamer
recession proof
^Would you stand at a construction site for minimum wage? Maybe if you're an illegal Mexican alien, you would.
Answer: It's required by law.
Answer: It's required by law.