Whose vision of transit in Toronto do you support?

[Northern Magus]

I have nothing to do with SOS, twerp.

Awww classy, aren't you? I've been called worse things by better people. Sticks and stones etc etc.

You're.

Studied what for five years? What a stupid statement. No, I'd rather they study "it" for 10 years and then build nothing.

Spit-flecked and rambling too, huh? But at least you're half right: someone's definitely making stupid statements, but it ain't me or nfitz.

 

[nfitz]

And you don't think they could re-negotiate with the feds and the Province?

With the massive deficits that both the Province and Federal Government have? I'm sure that both would be quite keen to re-negotiate. And I can bet on what their offer would be.

 

[gweed123]

With the massive deficits that both the Province and Federal Government have? I'm sure that both would be quite keen to re-negotiate. And I can bet on what their offer would be.

The Metrolinx RTP was only approved in December 2008, and that was AFTER both the Feds and Province had said they were going to run a deficit. Care to revise your statement?

 

[Dan416]

Last I checked, even 52.94% is a "clear majority". Technically, only 50% + 1 vote is enough for Quebec to separate from Canada, so I don't know why SOS should be held to a different standard.

As for whoever mentioned Spadina, I didn't include it because it's already under construction. Spadina isn't really part of SOS ether, since it's already underway and has been for years. Now there's a strawman if I ever saw one. Or a red herring. Or a red strawman. Or a straw herring.

SOS doesn't want to see stupid transfers like the one at Kennedy, and the upcoming one at Don Mills.

This isn't about funding. There's no reason you can't delay later parts of the plan, extend it out over more years. SOS's plan is no more unaffordable than TC.

 

[Northern Magus]

The Metrolinx RTP was only approved in December 2008, and that was AFTER both the Feds and Province had said they were going to run a deficit. Care to revise your statement?

Actually McGuinty committed the province to TC in 2007. And the feds only agreed to pay $317m for Sheppard.

So ... do you care to revise yours?

 

[gweed123]

Actually McGuinty committed the province to TC in 2007. And the feds only agreed to pay $317m for Sheppard.

So ... do you care to revise yours?

No, because TC was rolled into the Metrolinx RTP. If any changes were going to be made on behalf of the Province, they could have made them before the RTP was approved, which was in December 2008. The Province chose to continue to fund the RTP (and by conjunction TC) when they approved the plan in December 2008.

 

[Northern Magus]

Last I checked, even 52.94% is a "clear majority".

Wrong, especially when you're polling within your margin of error. Given your severely biased sample data, your error margin will be inordinately high.

Technically, only 50% + 1 vote is enough for Quebec to separate from Canada, so I don't know why SOS should be held to a different standard.

Wrong again: see especially paras 151 and 153, or even this. But nevertheless if you want to be held to that standard, that's fine by me.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

I've been called worse things by better people.

Hmm, I wonder why.

Spit-flecked and rambling too, huh? But at least you're half right: someone's definitely making stupid statements, but it ain't me or nfitz.

No, you're just fuming and frothing about the validity of an internet poll. Good job.

 

[Northern Magus]

you're just fuming and frothing about the validity of an internet poll.

Nope and nope. In fact, I can show you what fuming and frothing looks like:

I have nothing to do with SOS, twerp. It's not the plan I'd build.



You're.

Studied what for five years? What a stupid statement.

So ... ever get a rabies vaccination?

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Nope and nope. In fact, I can show you what fuming and frothing looks like:

In other words: "I'm not fuming and frothing, you're fuming and frothing!" or "That's not stupid, what you said was stupid!"

Okay.

 

[GenerationW]

Most depressing post 2010

Of 2010.

I'd like to thank the Academy.

 

[kettal]

Last I checked, even 52.94% is a "clear majority". Technically, only 50% + 1 vote is enough for Quebec to separate from Canada, so I don't know why SOS should be held to a different standard.

David Miller got 57% of the vote in 2006, over 20 percentage points better than the nearest contender, so his policy has a clear majority mandate.

 

[GenerationW]

I voted A. I'll give you my reason although I think many will find it unstatisfying. Basically, I really like this city and it is where I am choosing to make my future. However, my strategy in business and life assumes that transit expansion will be completely inadequate to meet the needs of the city and that even the modest proposals moving forward will cost double the amount of money and twice or triple the amount of time. In other words I am moving forward indifferent to the outcome. I chose A because there are forces pushing this plan forward and I support their initiative even if I do not support their proposal based on it's technical merit.

A cynical yet pragmatic explanation. Well done!

If, in terms of vision, Miller & Giambrone can be used as substitutes for Steve Munro in Option A, a Yonge extension would have to be eliminated since they are opposed to it.

 

[Fresh Start]

Children, children let's be civil. In repsonse to the thread in general - alledged sample bias aside - the defeatist, throw-in-the-towel mentality that I'm hearing in general is quite disheartening. Perhaps the poll should have read: will you personally find a day to day need to rely on any of these new Transit City lines for commuting? Does the the number of transfers and wait-times between boardings, standing at road-median tram shelters at -10 temperatures appeal to you? See, there just might be a slight disconnect between saying that one is in favour of Option A because it's what the TPTB will do regardless and showing practical support and solidarity for those proposals via the repeat patronage of that Option.

 

[Fresh Start]

The four funded projects have won the day and are advanced far enough (all funded, in engineering, two contracts out for Sheppard, one contract almost out for Eglinton) that I don't think they should be stopped. The next thing that should be focused on is the Jane LRT, Don Mills LRT, and Morningside LRT.

Perhaps Sheppard is a lost cause, but there's no reason to throw in the towel on Eglinton just yet. Wasn't 15 years ago Eglinton not next in line to recieve a new metro. And Eglinton proactively fits the conditions needed for sustainable ridership and urban development. Such potential is squandered via settling settling for streetcars stopped by red lights and snow shawls. And I'll suspend my disbelief that headways through the tunneled section won't eventually fall victim to bunching/stalling issues and delays. Metrolinx itself is/was in favour of a 100% exclusive grade-separated right-of-way across Eglinton whom we only have LRT hardliners and acolytes like Giambrone to thank for not securing for transit users a guaranteed 45 minutes commute from Scarborough to the ACC/Pearson. Perpetuating the SRT ROW rather than running the subway system deeper into Scarbrough is also something a mayoral elect may seek to criticize and refute.

The Don Mills LRT should terminate at Eglinton and continue as the DRL subway into downtown and the north end should be bound for Markham Centre which is a "Places to Grow" centre. Leslie and Highway 7 aren't that far from Yonge where the subway connects them to VIVA so why send the Don Mills LRT line there when it isn't a "Places to Grow" centre?

I disagree. Beaver Creek is a major employment area and would be in need of a direct north-south connector. And what's stopping the line from then turning east along Highway 7 to any of Warden, Kennedy or even McCowan? Some customers may choose to go straight across the Highway 7 corridor, others may seek a one-seat sojourn down Don Mills, and there should be more than one option available to these transit users.

The west side of the DRL should at least reach as far west as Humber Loop or Roncesvalles and Queen to prevent future Waterfront West and Queensway routes from needing to enter the congested downtown core by providing a transfer to the subway. Since there is no space in the Georgetown corridor for a subway and the Georgetown corridor will provide stops at Bloor, Eglinton, and Weston while the Barrie corridor provides stops at St.Clair, Sheppard West, and near Steeles and both corridors are slated for all-day service I'm not entirely sure a subway in the corridor is required. Once the corridors are electrified there is no reason, especially since GO has designed the Georgetown South corridor for two tracks per route, that GO couldn't eventually provide a frequent urban service making the idea of laying subway tracks in this area completely redundant. For this reason, and planned fare integration, I don't see a need for the DRL to go near the Georgetown corridor. I would send the DRL west to Kipling station, a "Places to Grow" hub with a GO station, and along the way it would provide access to the Waterfront West LRT at Humber Loop, and a Queensway BRT. Queensway west of Kipling and into Mississauga is ideal for BRT because there is very little urbanization potential considering the bridge over the railway tracks, the 427 interchange, and the hydro towers in the middle of the road.

I like the idea of not sending the DRL strictly up the Weston-Galt. Parkdale, Swansea, Marine Parade and the Queensway and Lakeshore westwards are becoming heavily populated with their TOD condo developments and to say to all these residents that infrequent streetcar service is good enough doesn't fly. If ever it were possible to branch/interline the DRL an arm should definitely take on a Queen Line alignment through western downtown and beyond. Another branch should cut through the innercity at a diagonal to intercept trip-generator intersections like Spadina-Dundas, Bathurst-Nassau, College-Grace, etc. Sending the DRL deep into Etobicoke may not be feasible, but to Humber Loop or Park Lawn serves as a natural terminus where Queensway BRT (which could intercept the B-D line at Sherway/West Mall) and Lakeshore West GO Train and Bus services could meet up. Oh and don't forget Caledonia Stn as a potential interchange for the Barrie Line.

The further north the DRL reaches the better the service the already funded east-west LRT lines will provide because the trips on the LRT will be shorter due to increased north-south connection options.

True, if even to just Eglinton-Don Mills and Mount Dennis intercepted by dedicated BRT up Jane and Don Mills, no one from the outer reaches of the 416 and the 905 east and west would even need to use YUS to get downtown.