How is the ONLY reason to integrate with "western Toronto"? That makes no sense. Do Scarberians only travel to "eastern Toronto"? Why is Mississauga being held to a different standard than Scarborough or Vaughan? I haven't heard anyone say that Vaughanites or Scarberians are only allowed to travel so far and not all the way downtown. This line of reasoning is frankly ridiculous.
Like I pointed out, it's because of the fare differences. When I get on a bus and pay a token, I expect to have the same level of service whether I live in Etobicoke or North York or Scarborough. That's why Scarborough is offered more services. Like it or not this is reality. Scarborough is part of the City of Toronto. Mississauga is not. Scarborough residents pay taxes that support the TTC and as such they expect a certain level of service. Mississauga residents have no such claim at this time.
Operationally, this reality also leads to huge differences. Scarborough residents don't use GO to access downtown. In fact, GO's fare structure specifically discourages travel inside the 416 on GO. GO stations aren't conveniently located, there is no fare or service integration. This leaves Scarborough residents with only the TTC. This is not the case for Mississauga. And if this is not the case, then what's the point of a subway? Mississauga residents already have an excellent way of getting to downtown Toronto. So a subway extension only makes sense for medium distance travel inside Mississauga or to western Toronto.
And by the way, Vaughan is not being held to the same standard as Scarborough, they'll be paying a different fare for their bus service and then paying the TTC fare for their subway ride.
As someone from Scarborough who lives in Ottawa, what exactly makes you an expert on what Mississauga needs? I could just as easily turn to the LRTista argument that long distance commuters (i.e. Scarborough and Mississauga) should use GO instead of subways, which is why STC and MCC should never get subways.
If you are going to persist with this argument, then tell us why we should take into account your views on any transit project inside the 416 and why your opinions on the SELRT or Scarborough RT should hold any water? Given the fact that I spent 12 years in Malvern, lived there as recently as 4 years ago, have all my immediate family within a 6km radius of MTC, probably still spend more time and money inside the 416 than you and the fact that the government considers all Canadian Forces personnel to be resident at their place of enrollment (which means I vote in Malvern), that should afford me enough credibility to speak out about my community, whether I am there at the moment or not.
Furthermore, an extension to Sherway is just that: an extension to Sherway. I've said it before and so has either doady or drum, MT buses would not be using Sherway except the ONE bus that already goes there (which runs maybe once an hour). An East Mall/Cloverdale stop would be used, but they're already building an MT terminal at Kipling anyway and that'll help compared to now since MT buses go all the way to Islington there's another logic fail).
I never said Sherway should be the only connection to Mississauga. I said Mississauga's future network needs better plug-ins to the TTC. Sherway is just one part of the solution.
The analogy to Scarborough is not flawed. If there was a subway in Mississauga, why and how would they pay two fares? That would be ridiculous. AFAIK York region residents aren't being charged a double fare on the subways going to their region.
They are. That was already announced. It was part of the deal. They will be paying YRT/VIVA fares to get to the station and then a TTC fare to ride the subway. And their taxpayers will be paying a top-up for the operational expenses the TTC is incurring for extensions past Steeles. Would taxpayers and riders in Mississauga agree to double fares and tax increases just for a subway to run downtown?
In the case of York region, the voters only agree because southern York regions is fairly well integrated with northern Toronto. That said, the Sorbara subway does not necessarily make sense. But at least it's not a far reach beyond the 416 (and as Scarberian pointed out Toronto had to agree to it to get the York subway extension). Ditto for a Yonge extension to Hwy 7. Any subway to Square One on the other hand is quite a stretch beyond Toronto's borders. And would present a very high burden for Mississauga residents. I am not convinced that Mississauga voters would necessarily agree to the bill they would have foot for such a subway extension. If they are willing to pay for it, then that's a different story. That's why it's tentative in the SOS plan.
And FYI the people who would take GO are already taking GO. Most GO stations in Mississauga have pretty good off-peak train-bus service.
So then where's the demand for a subway? It's the exact same reason Scarborough isn't getting better GO service. We already take the TTC. If Mississaugans are already taking GO, who's going to ride the subway?
If Mississauga or any region signed on to pay part of the operating expenses of running a subway somewhere, I'm sure they'd abide by their agreement to pay them. Governments can't just decide they want to get out of an agreement they made like that.
Whether they'll sign on is the question. Mississauga is not in the same boat as York region. As far as SOS goes that's why any subway plans to Mississauga have to remain fully tentative. Nothing can or should be offered beyond Sherway. If and when, Mississauga decides to join the party then they can negotiate a York style agreement. Till then, an extension to Sherway should not be held hostage by the distant potential of a subway to Mississauga.
