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When Toronto was a transit model. Interesting facts.

M

miketoronto

Guest
The following is from
wwwistp.murdoch.edu.au/pu...nadian.htm

As you guys know Toronto use to be a North American model for transit, before the cuts. Anyway check out these stats from when Toronto was a great transit city and a model.

If only our region grew the 905 in the way our inner suburbs grew, kept our transit funding high, and continued to put jobs in our downtown. Then maybe we would still be held up as a model.

Its so sad to see how we have lost our model of urban planning and transport.

While Toronto is still a great transit city, you can't help but feel bad when you read the stats below. Just remeber our current per capital ridership is now around 125 trips a person. Look what it was in the 1990's.

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Toronto is far less dominated by cars and indeed is the best North American example of transit-oriented development (Kenworthy and Newman, 1994). From 1960 to 1990 there was a large growth of 127% in Metro Toronto's transit use up to 350 trips per capita, which represents European levels of transit ridership,

Even Greater Toronto, which includes the lower density, more car-oriented suburbs of the region had 210 transit trips per capita in 1990, by far the biggest in North America and some 35% higher than the next best metropolitan region, New York.

The central city area (CBD) of Toronto has continued to grow in population over the past decades, adding some 20,000 new dwellings between 1975 and 1988 (Nowlan and Stewart, 1992), and Metro Toronto's density increased by 13% between 1960 and 1990 (particularly along its transit lines).

Metro Toronto with its 2.3 million people. As a result, it has been able to revitalise the downtown area and to develop a density in Metro Toronto (41 persons per ha) that is closer to European levels than American. Even the greater Toronto area has a density of 26 persons per ha, which is almost double the average US and Australian metropolitan densities.

Metro Toronto's 22 smaller sub-cities, together with a healthy downtown which has even managed to reduce parking supply per 1000 jobs by 11% between 1980 and 1990, provide the basis for a viable transit system.

Toronto's new central city housing has reduced the morning peak by 100 cars for every 120 units built (Nowlan and Stewart, 1992). There are families living in the city centre in the European tradition, which of course greatly enhances the vitality and safety of the public spaces.

Recent trends in Toronto are threatening to take some of the gloss away from these gains for sustainability as large scale cuts in the transit system have been implemented causing reductions in patronage (Pucher, 1995).


A significant part of these problems are the many changes in urban governance which are being implemented in Toronto and other Canadian urban regions and which are pushing towards a model of fragmentation in urban government, the politics of local self-interest and harmful competition between municipalities. These changes are tending to favour auto-dependent land use and transportation planning (Raad and Kenworthy, 1998) .
 
When was the last time TTC was name the number 1 transit system in NA?

It cannot even make the top 10 list these days and is almost 20 years behind those in the top 10 now.

Going from 460 million to 380 million within 10 years sure does not help.

It has taken another 10 years just to get back to 437 million and may reach 445 million this year.

TTC does not have the buses to handle to days riders like they did in the 80's considering we have a new subway also.

To get TTC not only back to where it was once, but to crack the 500 million mark, it is going to cost $45 Billion over the next 20 years to do this.
 
It cannot even make the top 10 list these days and is almost 20 years behind those in the top 10 now.
what criteria are you using to base that on? ridership? fare recovery? coverage? frequency of service? by any of those measures the TTC is easily in the top 10.
 
Just out of curiosity, a question for the transit buffs here. Which cities in North America have the best public transportation systems? I assume Toronto's is the best in the country.
 
US & Canadian metropolitan areas ranked by % of people using transit to get to work, 2000/2001

New York - 24.9%
Toronto - 22.4
Montreal - 21.7
Ottawa-Gatineau - 18.5
Winnipeg - 14.2
Calgary - 13.1
Chicago - 11.5
Vancouver - 11.5
Halifax - 9.9
Quebec - 9.8
Victoria - 9.7
San Francisco - 9.5
Washington-Baltimore - 9.4
Boston - 9.0
Philadelphia - 8.7
Edmonton - 8.6
Hamilton - 7.9
Oshawa - 7.1
Seattle - 6.8
Pittsburgh - 6.2
London - 6.0
Portland - 5.7
Los Angeles - 4.7
Minneapolis-St. Paul - 4.6
Regina - 4.4
Denver - 4.3
Las Vegas - 4.1
Saskatoon - 4.1
Milwalkee - 4.0
Kitchener - 3.9
Miami - 3.9
Atlanta - 3.7
Buffalo - 3.5
Cleveland - 3.4
San Diego - 3.4
Houston - 3.3
Cincinatti - 3.1
Windsor - 3.1
Salt Lake City - 3.0
Sacramento - 2.7
Austin - 2.6
Providence 2.5
St. Louis - 2.4
Louisville - 2.2
St. Catharines-Niagara - 2.0
Phoenix - 2.0
Rochester - 1.9
Detroit - 1.8
Dallas-Fort Worth - 1.8
Orlando - 1.7
Raleigh-Durham - 1.7
Indianapolis - 1.3
Kansas City - 1.3
Nashville - 1.0
 
"To get TTC not only back to where it was once, but to crack the 500 million mark, it is going to cost $45 Billion over the next 20 years to do this."

So it'll cost $45 billion to bring riderhip up to 500 million? Umm...err...huh?

edit - and take 20 years? wha...?
 
So it'll cost $45 billion to bring riderhip up to 500 million? Umm...err...huh?
Time to abandon public transit because that is several hundred dollars per new trip.
 
Or you could spend that $45 billion to bribe 200,000 people to sell their cars (who would then take the TTC about 80,000,000 times a year to easily reach the 500 million mark)...that would give each person $225,000! You could buy each person a condo on the subway line for less :)
 
In terms of 'best' transit system, raw numbers of ridership is useless, as I think NYC wouldn't be tops in terms of quality and frequency of service.
 
In terms of service coverage and service levels, Toronto is still tops.

Where we have lost out in the NA front is expansion, new service ideas, and keeping development around subway stations, etc.

That is where we are losing out.

But in terms of the service Toronto is still number one. I was looking at a route map of Chicago's night bus system, and our system still blows every city away except NYC.

Our coverage and service can't be topped in North America, even by large cities like Chicago or LA.


But we are losing out in ridership levels now and other factors, because we have not kept our workplaces central along the subways and other factors.
 
Mass transit is only a solution to a problem, not an end in itself. If every Torontonian was $20,000 richer overnight, transit use would drop dramatically... maybe one of the factors that decreased TTC ridership was economic growth in the city.
 
maybe one of the factors that decreased TTC ridership was economic growth in the city.
Makes sense, I used the TTC daily when I was student and poor. I could'nt wait to graduate and get a good paying job and buy my own car so I would'nt have to ride the subway and buses again. Twenty years later, I now live downtown and still drive, but I work in Markham. My wife who got a job downtown tried the subway for a while but went back to her car because it just was'nt convenient. I was speaking with some friends recently and recall when one friend said ".. remember when we had to take the subway downtown" As our income and ego's grew many of us switched to auto's and never turned back.
 
So basically you guys are saying TTC is only for the poor then?

Considering 80% of TTC riders are choice riders I don't know if that stands up. In Detroit maybe, but in Toronto transit is for everyone.

20% of TTC riders are considered captive meaning they are to poor to own a car and can't drive.

Actually most good transit systems have most of their ridership from choice riders.

In Montreal over 50% are choice riders. In Portland it is 70%, etc.

Also Toronto residents where richer in the 70-80's then they are now. Our income levels have actually been declining since the 90's.
 
So then maybe theres no need to improve transit then, if its only for the poor.

Maybe Wendle Cox is right. Provide a basic bus service with buses every half hour, and thats it, if everyone who can drive drives.
 

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