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What would Toronto be like today if the 1998 amalgamation never happened?

Can there be a referendum to bring back a four borough Metro government?

Without getting long winded, the city nor the province will grant a referendum if the outcome will be demalgamation, and even if they city itself wanted to demalgamat on its own, a regulation within the Municipal Act forbids the city or any almalgamated city in Ontario that will result "in an increase in the number of local municipalities".

I have always found that Torontonians consider and refer to the "outer boroughs"
as the "suburbs" as being separate entities
instead of being part of the City as annexed
similar to the City of New York...

To me the "suburbs" are outside the boundaries of the City of Toronto with the exception of Mississauga which is a City in
its own right.

It's been 18 years, people still remember when Scarborough and North York was outside the boundaries of the City of Toronto, and they where always the suburbs before the other municipalities suburbs like Mississauga came into existence in the late 60's.
 
Can there be a referendum to bring back a four borough Metro government?

It wouldn't be that difficult to give the community councils "borough" powers, with budgets to spend in specific local areas.

I have always found that Torontonians consider and refer to the "outer boroughs"
as the "suburbs" as being separate entities
instead of being part of the City as annexed
similar to the City of New York...

In Toronto they serve the function of both outer boroughs and inner suburbs.
 
Without getting long winded, the city nor the province will grant a referendum if the outcome will be demalgamation, and even if they city itself wanted to demalgamat on its own, a regulation within the Municipal Act forbids the city or any almalgamated city in Ontario that will result "in an increase in the number of local municipalities".

So does that mean that any kind of merger or amalgamation is a one-way street in that cities/towns/municipalities can only get larger not smaller, and once they've made any kind of decision to merge, there's no way to turn back ever -- like a marriage with no chance of divorce!


It's been 18 years, people still remember when Scarborough and North York was outside the boundaries of the City of Toronto, and they where always the suburbs before the other municipalities suburbs like Mississauga came into existence in the late 60's.

Perhaps then it's a generational thing -- some people are old enough to remember when say Scarborough was clearly sparsely populated suburb and Markham was still undeveloped farmland, whereas the younger generation less and less so; someone, now a teenager, say born in 2000 will have only remembered a world where Toronto always ended at Steeles and Mississauga was always a neighbouring city with a skyline. People's perceptions of their hometown after all are shaped by their own experience in terms of what they saw at the particular time and place they were growing up in it.

Perhaps, over time, as a new generation comes of age, people will grow up thinking it's normal to just call Etobicoke or Scarborough the "city" and somewhere like Vaughan "the suburbs".

Unless of course, residents of Toronto's old boroughs continue to identify strongly with them (as some certainly do!) so that their identities remain long-lasting, such as people still seeing Scarborough as their "hometown" that's distinctive in some way from old Toronto. I mean, people in Brookyln or the Bronx still speak of Manhattan as the "city" despite amalgamation having happened a century before Toronto's boroughs did! Who knows if Toronto's own boroughs and their own residents' view of them will have such staying power?
 
So does that mean that any kind of merger or amalgamation is a one-way street in that cities/towns/municipalities can only get larger not smaller, and once they've made any kind of decision to merge, there's no way to turn back ever -- like a marriage with no chance of divorce!

I would have to say its a Yes and No answer. Yes, as it stands amalgamation is a one way street, and cities themselves don't have the legal power to turn back. But no, because its not set in stone, the line I quoted was a regulation, and the Province can easily change it or change Toronto back to Metro Toronto on its own if it wishes. However, there isn't any political appetite from either party or city council to make such change.

At this point, the next upper-tier municipalities should be encompassing the GTA, move from a label to some form of regional government. It doesn't have to have all the powers or responsibility like Metro had. It could start off with managing public transit and arterial roads and can gain new powers over time as the region gets larger.



Perhaps then it's a generational thing -- some people are old enough to remember when say Scarborough was clearly sparsely populated suburb and Markham was still undeveloped farmland, whereas the younger generation less and less so; someone, now a teenager, say born in 2000 will have only remembered a world where Toronto always ended at Steeles and Mississauga was always a neighbouring city with a skyline. People's perceptions of their hometown after all are shaped by their own experience in terms of what they saw at the particular time and place they were growing up in it.

Perhaps, over time, as a new generation comes of age, people will grow up thinking it's normal to just call Etobicoke or Scarborough the "city" and somewhere like Vaughan "the suburbs".

Unless of course, residents of Toronto's old boroughs continue to identify strongly with them (as some certainly do!) so that their identities remain long-lasting, such as people still seeing Scarborough as their "hometown" that's distinctive in some way from old Toronto. I mean, people in Brookyln or the Bronx still speak of Manhattan as the "city" despite amalgamation having happened a century before Toronto's boroughs did! Who knows if Toronto's own boroughs and their own residents' view of them will have such staying power?

I don't think people will ever forget, even if the were born in 2000. On maps, letters and packages Scarborough is still Scarborough and North York is still North York. And its civic centres are frozen in time, reminding people they where once separate from Toronto. Even Toronto itself has held on to its pre-amalgamation past with celebrating its 182nd birthday, even though that date is questionable if you think about it.
 
Amalgamation means to me that none of cities wanted it. Annexation means at least one of the cities did, usually the bigger one.

I agree with that definition. Although annexation in Ontario means the smaller city/town council agrees to be annexed by the larger city and approved by the Ontario Municipal Board.
 
Even Toronto itself has held on to its pre-amalgamation past with celebrating its 182nd birthday, even though that date is questionable if you think about it.

Is that because people are not counting the founding of York, only when York became Toronto? I'm guessing perhaps this is different from the way most cities celebrate their birthdays (which would be the founding, such as say New York city counting from when it started off as the Dutch settlement of New Amsterdam)?
 
Is that because people are not counting the founding of York, only when York became Toronto? I'm guessing perhaps this is different from the way most cities celebrate their birthdays (which would be the founding, such as say New York city counting from when it started off as the Dutch settlement of New Amsterdam)?

I'm going from Toronto Star which states Toronto was incorporated in 1834. But if Amalgamation was basically a new reincorporated city, wouldn't the date be 1998?
 
I'm going from Toronto Star which states Toronto was incorporated in 1834. But if Amalgamation was basically a new reincorporated city, wouldn't the date be 1998?

It'd have been really funny though to see a celebration of Toronto's birthday where the city is only 18 this year.
It's like "Happy birthday, Toronto! You're finally old enough to be an adult!...... Oh wait, that's not quite right...." :p
 
North York, Scarborough, East York and Etobicoke would be better off. They were better off before. Better services, better school boards. Everything went down hill with the "Megacity".
 
This is "centralization". Things would be better if we "centralize" anything into one big place. Lets not have several small hospitals scattered all over the place, replace with one giant hospital. Lets not have several schools, put all the students in one place and bus them there. Don't have several bank branches, have one big bank branch. Don't have several hardware stores where one would walk to and from, better to have a big box hardware store where they have to drive there.

Sorry, it does not work for me.
 

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