West Don Lands: Block 9 (TDSB, ?s, ?)

[interchange42]

Time to start a thread for the last remaining block in the West Don Lands, this one's for a school. It's to the east of Block 20, so please pretend the giant red arrow is not there, or that it has indeterminate, meaning, or that there was an earthquake when the red plate was set. (I used to go to printing plants a lot, just reminiscing…)

Anyway, to kick it off I'm bringing forward a @Northern Light post from the Block 8 thread, (also to the west), and so that you can see it in full, I'm removing the QUOTE function, but between the lines of asterisks (or Asterixes if you're French or otherwise inclined), it's all Northern Light:

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@Northern Light, post: 1714977
It's the #9 project in queue for the TDSB among major capital projects. A business case has been submitted to the Ministry, and the land has been transferred to the TDSB.

However, the opportunity for construction is deferred as Mx want this block as a laydown site for the Ontario Line, as per the below:

That info comes from: https://www.tdsb.on.ca/Portals/0/docs/Community_Planning_Partnerships/CapitalPriorities2021/9 - West Donlands Final_May21.pdf

From the same document.............we learn that the school will be over capacity within 3 years of opening!

The black dashed line in the graph below represents the as-built (proposed) capacity of the new school:

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Okay, three replies…

They say construction for the new school can't begin until January 2027, but it will still open in September 2027? Nine months to complete the school? I don't think so. Most likely looking at a 2-year+ build, which leads to a September 2029 opening. And that's if the projected construction timeline on the OL is met. I wouldn't be surprised if the school is at full capacity on Day 1.

You're probably right that the schedule is too fast. My only thought (caveat: I know nothing about institutional infrastructure) is that a school is unlikely to have a basement or parking, therefore no underpinning or excavation. Also unlikely to be taller than three stories, so maybe it can be done that fast if it is literally shovel-ready in January?

The school should be integrated into the base of a tower.

…and we have the kick-off for a new thread, More to come soon-ish, but if others have time before I do to fill in more about the school, please do so!

42

 

[DSC]

That's very useful plan of the West Don Lands with all the Blocks clearly noted. Is it possible to put it somewhere as a reference and then link each Block to its thread? Currently not all threads to do with specific blocks seem to be titled in a standard way. Most seem to have titles in this format: West Don Lands: Block X but certainly not all! (e.g. https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threa...9-61m-26s-dream-cobe-architects.28755/page-29)

 

[Northern Light]

@interchange42

An offer of 2 substitute versions of the image you posted above.

A completely blank one you can use here or any applicable thread.

Another one w/the arrow in the right place for this thread:

 

[Northern Light]

News on this site, that will likely please some...........

The TDSB's Real Estate arm, Toronto Lands Co. is examining this school site for possible mixed-use development, inclusive of a new school.

We learn this in a report to a special meeting of Planning and Priorities Committee in late November.

We don't have much detail, as yet, no final determination on feasibility has been made, but a further report will be made early next year.

Report:

https://pub-tdsb.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=16434

From the above:

Your massing diagram:

Your conceptual render:

 

[maestro]

I don't like the idea. It limits future expansions. The other reason is that it's probably being considered as a construction financing model. And, that's a sign of a broken education system

 

[Towered]

News on this site, that will likely please some...........

The TDSB's Real Estate arm, Toronto Lands Co. is examining this school site for possible mixed-use development, inclusive of a new school.

I really wish they'd take the same approach at Dundas West and Bloor instead of wasting everyone's time there

 

[rdaner]

I think this is a great solution for providing educational facilities close to where people live without taking 5 hectares out of service. This is most likely common in the rest of the world and it will take time for people here to get used to it. Change is scary! Lol

 

[Northern Light]

I think this is a great solution for providing educational facilities close to where people live without taking 5 hectares out of service. This is most likely common in the rest of the world and it will take time for people here to get used to it. Change is scary! Lol

5 hectares? Where is any new build school getting 12.5 acres of land, LOL

I don't think there is any virtue in schools that have no school yard to speak of, nowhere outdoors for the kids to play. I'm fine w/housing over a school building, though it does present challenges.

I'm far more concerned by how small this site is to begin with; and the absence of space for kids to play at recess or learn to play soccer.

 

[Towered]

5 hectares? Where is any new build school getting 12.5 acres of land, LOL

I don't think there is any virtue in schools that have no school yard to speak of, nowhere outdoors for the kids to play. I'm fine w/housing over a school building, though it does present challenges.

I'm far more concerned by how small this site is to begin with; and the absence of space for kids to play at recess or learn to play soccer.

Meh, let 'em run around Corktown Common.

 

[Northern Light]

Meh, let 'em run around Corktown Common.

Why do I want lots of infernal little rug rats messing about in a space that I enjoy walking in? LOL

 

[Northern Light]

I really wish they'd take the same approach at Dundas West and Bloor instead of wasting everyone's time there

They did engage in negotiations on that site........

2280 Dundas West | 127.5m | 38s | Choice Properties | Hariri Pontarini

2280 Dundas St West (Loblaws site) Several community meetings have been held for this 13 acre site, including a roundtable workshop. However, the project is currently on hold. When work resumes, more community feedback will be sought, with community meetings and roundtables to come...

urbantoronto.ca

 

[Towered]

They did engage in negotiations on that site........

2280 Dundas West | 127.5m | 38s | Choice Properties | Hariri Pontarini

2280 Dundas St West (Loblaws site) Several community meetings have been held for this 13 acre site, including a roundtable workshop. However, the project is currently on hold. When work resumes, more community feedback will be sought, with community meetings and roundtables to come...

urbantoronto.ca

I'll have to go re-read it, but I seem to recall that the TDSB was being obstinate with regards to redeveloping that awful school on the corner (Bishop Marocco), delaying the whole project as a result. Perhaps I'm misremembering.

 

[rdaner]

5 hectares? Where is any new build school getting 12.5 acres of land, LOL

I don't think there is any virtue in schools that have no school yard to speak of, nowhere outdoors for the kids to play. I'm fine w/housing over a school building, though it does present challenges.

I'm far more concerned by how small this site is to begin with; and the absence of space for kids to play at recess or learn to play soccer.

I completely understand your reservations but there does seem to be several different play areas both on the ground and on different roof levels not to mention the numerous public areas designed with kids in mind such as Underpass Park and the north side of Front Street East. As well this site is adjacent to Corktown Commons we’re there is a large playing field on the south side that is already being used for kids soccer on the weekends. As far as size goes I think that this opens up more flexibility for a larger number of facilities to be expanded/shrunk/relocated that correspond to individual neighbourhoods. The one-size-fits-all one level warehouses that many grew up with post-WW2 were of a different time and place; nostalgia is not a planning tool. It isn’t a failure to try different models. I know that we can look to the newest neighbourhoods like Paper Island and HafenCity as guides rather than Levitt Town and suburban Edmonton circa 1956 but that’s just me; to each his own!

 

[Northern Light]

I completely understand your reservations but there does seem to be several different play areas both on the ground and on different roof levels

None of these spaces are large enough to allow for baseball or soccer, or permit track and field.

not to mention the numerous public areas designed with kids in mind such as Underpass Park and the north side of Front Street East.

This not only isn't adjacent to the school is 1/2 a kilometer away.

It likewise cannot accommodate soccer or baseball or track and field.

As well this site is adjacent to Corktown Commons we’re there is a large playing field on the south side that is already being used for kids soccer on the weekends.

That is true; but that space is already quite busy at times, and if the school takes over the field then it isn't available to the community, I'm particularly thinking of the after-school period.

As far as size goes I think that this opens up more flexibility for a larger number of facilities to be expanded/shrunk/relocated that correspond to individual neighbourhoods.

I'm fine w/varying size, and massing, to a practical point; however, I don't want to see entire types of leaning and activity abandoned.

The one-size-fits-all one level warehouses that many grew up with post-WW2 were of a different time and place.

Again, lets not confuse the building with the outdoor space. The issue for me is function more than form.

It isn’t a failure to try different models. I know that we can look to the newest neighbourhoods like Paper Island

So far I was aware, there is no school proposed for Paper Island; but do correct me if I'm wrong.

and HafenCity

Hafen City School: (sports field and large greenspace directly abutting building)

 

[rdaner]

None of these spaces are large enough to allow for baseball or soccer, or permit track and field.



This not only isn't adjacent to the school is 1/2 a kilometer away.

It likewise cannot accommodate soccer or baseball or track and field.



That is true; but that space is already quite busy at times, and if the school takes over the field then it isn't available to the community, I'm particularly thinking of the after-school period.



I'm fine w/varying size, and massing, to a practical point; however, I don't want to see entire types of leaning and activity abandoned.



Again, lets not confuse the building with the outdoor space. The issue for me is function more than form.



So far I was aware, there is no school proposed for Paper Island; but do correct me if I'm wrong.



Hafen City School: (sports field and large greenspace directly abutting building)

View attachment 526730

There simply isn’t room downtown for every school to have a baseball diamond/track and field track so scheduling may have to be a thing. Lol! Think of function in a 3D and temporal sense rather than in black and white terms. Maybe a diamond on the southern part of The Portlands? Anyways most of those fields are empty 22 hours a day as well as for 6 months of our very cold year. This is the third proposal for a more nuanced integration of elementary schools in mixed use buildings so we are going to be getting a lot of opportunities to get it right! This is an evolving discussion that is just beginning and the final result will probably be somewhere in the middle. And does UTS have a full baseball diamond?

More Tokyo, less Atlanta!