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We need more green space?

E

esplanade guy

Guest
Why is it, at every development meeting, ratepayers are always demanding more parks and greenspace, that no one seems to use. Last summer, I spent time in many empty parks, that had nothing but trees and grass but no people. Do we really need more green space to just sit empty and unused? The Etobicoke waterfron is one of those places. There is absolutly nothing there and the place seems unused, except for joggers and cyclists, just passing through. I think it's pointless for Toronto to build more parks with nothing in them, to just sit unused and unloved. If you want to build a park, put something in it, like a museum or amphitheatre. It's also time for some of those demanding ratepayers groups to use some of those parks they are always asking for.
 
esplande:

There is this popular myth among the masses that somehow any greenspace, regardless of usage, is a good thing in that it will improve property values, etc. What they didn't consider is , in addition to the issue of usage and appropriateness in siting, large amounts of greenspace is also extremely costly to maintain to a high standard of landscaping.

AoD
 
Is your experience out of the DT core? Just curious...I wonder if less people use parks in the places with homes and yards, like South Etobicoke. That whole Trinty Bellwoods area gets lots of traffic.

I shot a project two years ago for the city in which I spent a month or so hitting up all the parks in the city, photographing them to help secure funding. I was in awe at our green space and it really opened up my eyes as to who used these spaces. New Canadians, larger families even from the burbs would meet every Sat. in say Sunnybrook or on the island etc. for lunch and dinner and well a good match of Cricket!! I would guess that this was due to the family unit still being tight, which let's face it, 2nd and 3rd generation Canadian families are not. Regardless, from what I saw the parks were being put to great use by a lot of people. Most were also in fantastic shape.

Here is the book: www.toronto.ca/parks/reac...ds/OCG.pdf
 
Whenever I start to think Toronto doesn't have enough parkland, I take a trip on my bike through the ravine system.

We truly are a "city in a park" - a lot of people in their cars seem to forget it though.
 
Parks and greenspace are not the same thing.

Parks are useful spaces, built to be used. Ravine trails, ditto. A big private fenced lawn around a residential tower, with no paths or benches is a different thing: a waste of space.
 
esplanade guy: Can you be more specific about where you were that was so bereft of people? I bike the Etobicoke waterfront fairly regularly, and I rarely feel like I'm the only guy down there. I suppose the quietest of the parks would be Colonel Sam Smith at the foot of Kipling, but there are always at least some other people down there, out on the headland, too. Just inshore, by the south end of the Humber College buildings (former Lake Shore Psychiatric) I have watched a cricket match take place. It all depends on the day and time.

Quietness, it should be said, is something to be enjoyed in the midst of this busy city. I also often walk or bike through the Humber Valley from Bloor south to my place, and the parks in that area offer a quick retreat from hustle and bustle, and a quick re-connection to nature. I also like the fact that parts of High Park are tucked away from most views as well, and offer a taste of wilderness.

Central Toronto doesn't have such green luxury. There are small pockets here and there, but it's too bad that the biggest park in the core is Queen's Park, where one can always still see traffic circling when from inside it. Any new additions to park space in the city will be well used, whether that means high traffic or low.

42
 
The park just west of the Humber River is so dead and boaring. Once you go over that bridge, your in an area that is usually deserted, except for people quickly jogging or cycling through. There isn't even a restaurant, coffee shop or store to get a drink. That park seems to be built only for the people who live in the nearby condos. There is nothing to bring people to this park, except the view of Toronto. That part of Toronto/Etobicoke is such a big disappointment. It was supposed to be a people place with an aquarium and recreational uses, not just a garden for middle class condo owners.
Then you have that newish park near the beaches. (the one with the large bandshell I have NEVER seen used) While the beaches parks are usually full of people, this fairly large park has few people, even on summer weekends. As a matter of fact, there are a few other parks, just west of there (sorry, I don't know the names off-hand) that are almost always empty, except for sports leagues who use them for baseball. Much of the Don Valley systems of parks are completly under-used. It appears to me people don't even use the parks we have now but always demand more.
Has anybody noticed how shabby the parks we have now are? Grange Park seems to have more bare earth then grass and the park behind the Flatiron building is dark and creepy. It also has that neglected look with large patches of earth and grass that is in poor condition. If we can't even properly maintain the parks we have now, why build more of the same? Maybe brick lined public squares would be easier to maintain and look a whole lot better but I am no expert, just an opinionated Torontonian. lol
 
I find your comments about the park in Etobicoke a bit misguided. I've gone through there many times, and frankly its quite crowded, and very beautiful. The condo developements are a mess, granted, but the park itself is gorgeous. A few quotes:

"except for people quickly jogging or cycling through" - Are these not appropriate uses for a park?

"There isn't even a restaurant, coffee shop or store to get a drink." - why is the equation "commercial establishments" = "Urbanity" so prevalent on this forum? Stanley Park, where you can sit and watch mist rise off of Beaver Lake in the morning, remains an intensely urban place. The failure to understand that is unfortunate.

"That park seems to be built only for the people who live in the nearby condos." - you make this claim twice, but as part of the waterfront trail system the park is very accessible to a wide range of people. I've been there dozens of times and I live near Maple Leaf Gardens.

"There is nothing to bring people to this park, except the view of Toronto" - or, the view of the lake. Or the butterfly gardens - or, the public art - or, watching other people stroll on a summer's evening - or, the sunrise.

"a people place with an aquarium" - again, this mania for commercial uses. An aquarium, like, you have to pay to get in and the money goes to someone else - that's more of a people place than a publicly accessible park? It's also a terrible place for an aquarium - since it's not very accessible and aquariums don't attract traffic on their own - they work best as part of a set of attractions. Also, an aquarium brings with it a big huge parking lot and school buses and crap like that. The notion that an aquarium should go there actually makes me value the condos that much more.

Perhaps I'm not being fair by critiquing esp's post in such detail, but I completely don't understand the attitudes expressed. I do think the waterfront would have been better with some retail/commercial component, like a nice architect-designed restaurant somewhere out near the water, a la Vancouver, but the absence of that also isn't a big problem for me.
 
The new Beaches park (where Woodbine Raceway used to be) is underused in parts... the area near the kids playground and the little lake/marshland is fairly bustling in nice weather.
 
^ Why not try to understand somebody's point of view, rather than critiquing it? Obviously the park/greenspace system doesn't work for him/her. That's not a crime!

Personally I don't get this issue. If you want nature, move to the country! This is Canada's largest city and urban area. The fact that there is a ravine system extant, a beautiful lake (even if the lakefront is a disaster), an island chain a stone's throw away, High Park and many others, is pretty good enough, imo. Although it would be nice to see the parks and gardens better maintained, but this is just part of the larger issue of urban planning and standards: The condition of our parks and the state of our streets and sidewalks all result from the same negligence, lack of planning and funding.
 
Archivist> It's interesting, that mania for commercial establishment = high urbanity.

I think the same thing when i hear people talking about Dundas Square. No matter how garish or unpretty, more billboards = urbanity + world class. I don't mind the vugarity of the square's surroundings personally, but that urbanity + world class thing people attach to it is weird.
 
shawnm:

It's a testament to the image making power of NYC, London and Tokyo - and how certain elements (like billboards) can translate themselves as symbols of these cities (thus so called urbanity).

AoD
 
tudor, I'm actually trying to respond to what esplanade wrote and he can comment back to me. That's what it's all about, no?

You say, yourself: "The condition of our parks and the state of our streets and sidewalks all result from the same negligence, lack of planning and funding." The Etobicoke waterfront park is an example of a well planned, well funded, beautiful and varied environment, but you're dismissing it nonetheless.
 
Exactly. And then it's the age-old Torontonian condition of not getting excited about what we do here, but wishing we had copies of what other cities have.
 
Must every green patch in the city have a purpose. What's wrong with having green spaces that we can see? We don't need to be engaged in organized activity every moment of the day. Sometimes it's nice to be able to look out the window and see the trees in bud, the grass getting green and the daffodils coming into bloom. Or better yet, take a book or the paper and just go sit on a bench and enjoy being able to be outside. Or maybe that's just me, because that's my view of St. James' Park right now.

And as for the park behind the Flatiron building being dark, it's between two well lit streets, and there is a large, bottom lit fountain that's been turned on already. Not every space in town needs to be lit like the inside of the Skydome.
 
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