We HATE Toronto!

[lawsond]

Toronto used to be a city overwhelmingly white and protestant...Presbyterian to be exact.
It mirrors the same psychic crisis that main-line protestants have gone through over the past decades.
They have no faith in their own culture/food/faith anymore.
They are searching for something to fill the void and stuff their lives full of sushi and tai chi and everything that has no relation to their own past and grounding.
And so they feel empty and soulless.
And that is exactly what Toronto feels like...so full of all kinds of exotica...but rootless and soulless. And without a clear idea of its purpose.
Just compare it to Montreal or New York or any other city that understands and cherishes its roots and past.
Toronto despises itself.

 

[TonyV]

What a bunch of b.s. this post really is.

I am born and raised here. I have seen Toronto grow from a lunchpail town, to a middling sort of place, to an almost-there in the pre free-trade times, to an actual contender in recent years, full of cultural riches and fabulous food experiences.

I came back here from Paris last summer ... on the airplane ride back I was wondering what I would think of Toronto after Paris, and let me tell you, I was delighted with Toronto's 'presence'. I am not saying it's like Paris, but of the Beta cities around the world I would say that Toronto currently leads the pack of contenders into Alpha ranking.

The emerging thing about Toronto is its 'patchwork quilt' aspect. It is to be savoured.

Toronto haters have their collective heads up their asses.

 

[Benc7]

Toronto haters have their collective heads up their asses.

Bravo!

 

[Jonny5]

um.. New York City?
Of course, the reason it could do that is because of express and local tracks that allow trains to be diverted while the other pair undergoes nightly maintenance. But since those will not exist in Toronto in the foreseeable future (unless they decide to build DRL that way, which is doubtful), yes I agree that TTC subway will never be 24/365.

When people talk about "24 hour service" in other cities, they often focus on the 24 hours and forget the service part. We run trains every 5 minutes until at least 1:30am. Many 24 hour lines in other cities will already be up to 30 minute frequencies by then. Some of the 24 hour lines in New York only have three or four trains pass through in the time our stations are closed. Many people would rather have the now frequent 310 bus service we have on Yonge. You can find just as many New Yorkers that bitterly hate the MTA.

We're very fortunate to be able to show up at any subway station in the city for 21 hours a day and not have to worry about when the next train is going to come.

 

[golodhendil]

^ I was merely pointing out the fact that there are a number of cities with 24-hr metro service. As I said, such a service is by no means necessary for vibrant nightlife, and I was not commenting on the quality of the service (people anywhere always complain about their transit service, supporting my point earlier that there are local haters in every city, or simply people who want their city to be better).
One thing, however. While each line by itself may have a 20 (usually) - 30 min interval, because of the heavy overlap of the large number of lines on the same route or different routes serving the same destination, at least in the core (Manhattan, Brooklyn, western Queens, southern Bronx), late night service can reach up to a 5-10 min headway for much of the night.

 

[bleeepbluuup]

Toronto used to be a city overwhelmingly white and protestant...Presbyterian to be exact.
It mirrors the same psychic crisis that main-line protestants have gone through over the past decades.
They have no faith in their own culture/food/faith anymore.
They are searching for something to fill the void and stuff their lives full of sushi and tai chi and everything that has no relation to their own past and grounding.
And so they feel empty and soulless.
And that is exactly what Toronto feels like...so full of all kinds of exotica...but rootless and soulless. And without a clear idea of its purpose.
Just compare it to Montreal or New York or any other city that understands and cherishes its roots and past.
Toronto despises itself.

All that "exotica" does have actual significance to many Torontonians, though perhaps not to the people of Old Toronto stock who are now a minority. Toronto has changed so much, so fast... but we do have a great city and we have the makings of an even greater one at hand. It'll just take some time for us to figure ourselves out.

 

[Tewder]

Toronto used to be a city overwhelmingly white and protestant...Presbyterian to be exact.
It mirrors the same psychic crisis that main-line protestants have gone through over the past decades.
They have no faith in their own culture/food/faith anymore.
They are searching for something to fill the void and stuff their lives full of sushi and tai chi and everything that has no relation to their own past and grounding.
And so they feel empty and soulless.

The irony is that for most Americans who come to Toronto it is this very 'Britishness' that is most unique and interesting for them. I'm always surprised to hear this because I think Torontonians have a tin ear where our past and heritage are concerned, and newcomers simply don't have the north american perspective to understand how Toronto is unique as a big city in this regard. The fact is that our much-vaunted 'exoticness' hardly registers anymore in an increasingly pluralist and globalized world where you can now find sushi and shwarma in even the smallest of midwestern burgs. To stand out in today's world it'll come down to a place's specificity and not its diversity, which is sort of taken as an a-priori for any place that would be considered cosmopolitan.

 

[Urban Shocker]

Toronto didn't feel in the slightest bit British when I arrived here from Britain in 1970. It still doesn't. It feels uniquely Torontonian.

 

[livdb]

I'm not sure if my first post should be in the "We HATE Toronto!" thread but I just wanted to say that I have had a couple theories as to why Toronto might not be quite as high up the "World Class" city scale as it could or should be.

I think the city's zoning by-laws are extremely inconsistent which tends to ruin neighbourhoods if people can ultimately build whatever they want. The signage by-laws for retail buildings are too slack and allow for buildings to be covered by signage and there doesnt seem to be any discretion.

I agree with most other people's arguments with why Toronto might not be up to par and this was just something I had to add.

 

[Tewder]

Toronto didn't feel in the slightest bit British when I arrived here from Britain in 1970. It still doesn't. It feels uniquely Torontonian.

Absolutely US. The 'Britishness' of Toronto doesn't register with people from Britain, or with people from outside of a North American context. Again, it's something I've heard from Americans, time and again. I can't call their perspective 'wrong'. It is what it is.

 

[ShonTron]

The "Englishness" of Victoria BC didn't register much with me either, and that's part of their tourist marketing angle.

Perhaps up to the 1950s Toronto might have had a bit of an British feel, when you'd see Union Jacks proudly displayed and the Orange Order ruled the city, but certainly not today.

 

[3Dementia]

To stand out in today's world it'll come down to a place's specificity and not its diversity, which is sort of taken as an a-priori for any place that would be considered cosmopolitan.

The word cosmopolitan seems to be a stand-in for "world-famous" or "world-city" rather than for "world-diverse" which is what it means by definition.

Is Tokyo considered a cosmopolitan city? I wonder if it would pass the definition litmus test.

Toronto indeed qualifies as a Grade A cosmopolitan city - you can see the diversity, taste the diversity, purchase tickets to watch the diversity ... diversity has become "normal" to those Torontonians who really know how to "inhabit" their complex city.

There is substantial equity that can be gleened from this diversity. Admittedly the lame responses to this communications challenge (aka "unlimited" brand, slogan wanks) have not been effective (sometimes down right embarrassing)... but I see no need to throw our hands up in defeat because we are "too diverse".

Challenge: the mature tourist markets (short and medium-haul) are shrinking. Travel from the U.S. is down nearly 50% and the other big three (UK, France, Germany) are shrinking too.

Opportunity:
The growth areas in international tourist travel are from "long haul" regions such as Asia (incl. South Asia) and emerging markets like those in South and Latin America. Though the total numbers are small compared to the U.S. numbers, there are some interesting trends to build on... such as South Korean visits to Toronto growing by 10% each year.

Our very diversity offers some extraordinary "ambassadorial" links, particularly in the realm of family/friends "influenced" travel decisions from other countries.

This is one of the reasons that 2 failed Olympic bids were so disappointing... I'd wager that a Toronto Olympics would have been witnessed (tourists in the stands and internationally via broadcast) by the most diverse audience in history.

The notion of "specificity" is narrow, old-fashioned and lazy. In many ways it relies on propping up stereotypical, snap-shot thinking (Eiffel Tower, Big Ben, Great Wall).

Toronto has evolved into an unprecedented cosmopolitan city. Hard to fit on a postcard but a rich communications challenge to be embraced.

A few more Chinatown Gates will only enhance the equity.

 

[adma]

The "Englishness" of Victoria BC didn't register much with me either, and that's part of their tourist marketing angle.

Perhaps up to the 1950s Toronto might have had a bit of an British feel, when you'd see Union Jacks proudly displayed and the Orange Order ruled the city, but certainly not today.

Though I can see how, to Yanks, Toronto might have a more "British" feel, if it speaks to their experience of British cities *today*, especially relative to the current state of American cities...

 

[Disparishun]

This is one of the reasons that 2 failed Olympic bids were so disappointing... I'd wager that a Toronto Olympics would have been witnessed (tourists in the stands and internationally via broadcast) by the most diverse audience in history.

(...)

Toronto has evolved into an unprecedented cosmopolitan city. Hard to fit on a postcard but a rich communications challenge to be embraced.

While there are few things quite so provincial as packaging our multiculturalism as though it were somehow unique in the world, I do want to twig on the Olympics thing. Pan Am Games: an opportunity to deepen Toronto's engagement with Latin America substantially. Why have we not seized it? Here is something concrete exactly along the lines you are painting. What gives?

 

[urbanboom]

Though I can see how, to Yanks, Toronto might have a more "British" feel, if it speaks to their experience of British cities *today*, especially relative to the current state of American cities...

I don't know. If I had to choose a city that Toronto has the most resemblance to, I would choose London over an other NA city like Chicago. The subtle resemblance was really cool, when I went over there this summer.