Second_in_pie
Senior Member
I agree with this agree. Unfortunately, the chances of this happening are slim to none. We can't even get that kind of transit in our largest urban centres.
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Waterloo to get $300 million for Rapid Transit
- Thread starter denfromoakvillemilton
- Start date
Fresh Start
Banned
But that's just it. We don't need more light-rail (particularly the mixed traffic, road median kind) in our largest urban centres when we already have very successful and far-reaching heavy rail metro subways or ICTS. Transit City is devolution when one considers that our population's growing and will quickly overcrowd these LRT lines well beyond one's computed ridership projections.
Hamilton, Kitchener-Waterloo, London, Kingston, Brampton, Mississauga, Oshawa, Ottawa, Windsor - these medium-sized urban centres rightfully deserve light-rail and I hope that they'll all recieve it in the forseeable future.
nfitz
Superstar
Why do you say this? Ottawa is building grade-separated LRT. There is no grade separation for this LRT in Waterloo ... other than where it crosses an expressway and Weber north of the University. Surely it's very Transit City LRT. Some of it does run along a railway alignment from Erb to Northfield; however there are frequent level crossing from Erb to Bearinger.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Ottawa's LRT is only grade-separated in the core. It's at-grade elsewhere. Not that it matters given that it's segregated and exclusive along the entire ROW (and that's far more relevant). I see the Waterloo system in the same light. No grade separation. But tons of exclusive ROW especially the future bits.
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Kitsune
Senior Member
Is this a over glorified street car row, or is it along the lines of Calgary style LRT?
kEiThZ
Superstar
Half of it is streetcar ROW for now. The future half is mostly Calgary style. So it's somewhere between Transit City and Ottawa/Calgary LRT.
doady
Senior Member
My advocacy group, Transit Region, is working on a plan that would see these funds used to build 120 kilometres of BRT lines throughout the entire region, servicing as many major corridors as possible and every single neighbourhood, except Downtown Kitchener.
nfitz
Superstar
I must confess, I haven't ridden the Ottawa transitway since the 1980s. My recollection at the time, is that the roadway was mostly a dedicated roadway, but with some at-grade crossings. This differs from much of the Waterloo system, where it's running down the middle (or side) of streets. I didn't think there was much street running in the current Ottawa design.
ShonTron
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I find that Kingston is too small, too spread out to be able to host LRT. There are a few trip generators: Queen's, Downtown, perhaps St. Lawrence College, not RMC. It had two or three streetcar lines until the 1930s, yes, but buses will best serve places like Kingston. Kingston Transit did significantly improve transit a few years ago, though a bus trip from the VIA station to downtown has become harder to do with a transfer now required and a circutious routing.
Halifax starts to get around the size where LRT might work, but it is also very spreadout despite a centralized downtown. Buses and ferries do the job fine (I've used Metro Transit buses and ferries before).
Calgary and Edmonton are great examples of LRT, Edmonton's LRT so much more useful with the southern extensions. K-W really made the effort, and with a lucky geography (all their pearls just about in a straight line), despite a smallish population, will be a great example.
Hamilton has a great case, with the East-West line between Dundas, Mac, Downtown, Eastgate being a very busy corridor (1/10, you can count the 3 Cannon and 5 Delaware too).
I think most of the corridors in Ontario suitable for LRT are the ones getting LRT, with a few exceptions (cough, Sheppard), and not sure about Dundas in Mississauga if that will be LRT or "BRT", it is a worthy corridor.
Fresh Start
Banned
Yeah Hamilton's huge area-wise, so I'm very much in favor of the two major lines they're proposing (and if anything, the James/Upper James line can have a spur via the Hwy 6 embankment lands to the Lime Ridge Mall area, thus lessening the need for more lines in the future). Sort of OT, but I also hope that Hamilton's Hunter St GO Stn can be fully integrated into the new GO Niagara service and not have the line bypass the heart of that city. There's a opportunity in Stony Creek to lay new trackbeds by which to connect the interior rail corridor to the Lakeshore corridor, so surely it'd be worth the investment to do so.
But Dundas St through Mississauga does not need LRT. Unlike K-W's situation as you cited, none of the major trip generators surrounding Dundas are in a nearly straight alignment (Mississauga Hosp, UTM, South Common, Cooksville GO) and with Sauga's insistance on building this thing on the cheap probably won't be factoring in any grade-separated sections for added connectivity and convenience. Bus Rapid Transit's the more flexible option in this case. I can only hope that they'll consider some elevated/underground guideways for the 4 highway crossings involved with the Hurontario-Main LRT, as well the 3 GO Transit rail crossings.
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kEiThZ
Superstar
Not much of the Transitway today is not segregated in an exclusive ROW.
jwill
Active Member
I have a few problems with the alignment, particularly through downtown and uptown. But overall I think its a great place for LRT. It really shows off the advantages of the mode, being able to run along existing ROWs to jump from one major node to the next, but also able to run on street in the downtowns. As for the speed, its less of a factor here. The impetus for the line was really a capacity concern with so many buses already running along King St. and more planned for the future. Waterloo Region has a strong infill development program in place and it needs more capacity along its central spine-which is where the LRT comes in. Not to mention the possible future GO connection at Kitchener, and eventually Galt (LRT phase 2) which should attract a lot of ridership growth.
Coltaine79
Active Member
I assume this system will make use of that annoyingly underused railway track which you need to cross to visit UW? (i.e. use it as ROW if not the actual track itself)
Who owns that track anyways, CP, CN?
Who owns that track anyways, CP, CN?
kEiThZ
Superstar
RMC would actually be a great trip generator if service was provided there. Not in the least because the base is next door. CF bases actually have a mandate to support encourage transit use where possible (basically when located in urban areas). And Kingston is actually prime for it. Combine that with the recent practice at RMC of encouraging upper year students to stay off-campus and you've got a good half the student population that would use transit if it was convenient enough.
Having spent time at CFB Kingston and RMC, I would suggest that both would support transit since their parking lots (especially at RMC) are spilling over (ever since students started living off-campus and driving to school). Both would probably prefer increased transit usage to building more parking lots as well.
That said, RMC and CFB Kingston aren't the drivers in any transit planning scenario. But I do wonder if a Princess, University, King (or Ontario), Hwy 2 (across the causeway) routing would work. Start at the Ambassador Conference centre and run to RMC/Fort Henry, via Queen's and downtown. That's about an 8 km routing, all on the surface and covers the width of Kingston. Or maybe a Bath, Princess, Ontario, causeway routing? Getting across the causeway might be a tad expensive though.
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Mapleson
Active Member
Why must I limit myself to one facet of the falacy of this project? It is slower than iXpress bus. Why do you claim this is false? It has less stops than the 7D and serves a smaller area. This is a good way to spend money? The average stop spacing looks good, but it ignores the fact all the stations are bunch into the core of the line.
This project looks good on paper if you don't know the details, but the more you know the less it makes sense.