Waterloo Region Transit Developments (ION LRT, new terminal, GRT buses)

[DavidJamesTO]

It depends on the economic level of the customers being targeted. Are they in an income bracket where they can spend the money on a GO bus/train ticket, even for only one stop? You can take the GO or the subway to Kipling from Union, but price makes the subway the winner (though sometimes you just want to get out of the downtown in less than half an hour).

 

[mpd618]

Is there a reason GO would be more expensive on this corridor than the alternatives? There isn't much transit infrastructure already there....

 

[DavidJamesTO]

I'm just basing it on what GRT charges now, which is close to what the TTC costs. That could change once LRT is in place for all I know.

 

[W. K. Lis]

On Wednesday, June 15, 2011, Waterloo Region council votes on getting rapid transit in some form with Light Rail at the head of the pack.

See this link from the Waterloo Chronicle for more information.

See this link from The Record.com for information on who's on board and who's not.

That is it is council making the decision, not the mayor, unlike other cities in Ontario.

 

[gweed123]

On Wednesday, June 15, 2011, Waterloo Region council votes on getting rapid transit in some form with Light Rail at the head of the pack.

See this link from the Waterloo Chronicle for more information.

See this link from The Record.com for information on who's on board and who's not.

That is it is council making the decision, not the mayor, unlike other cities in Ontario.

Amount that K-W is left to cover: $235 million (29% of project cost)
Amount that Ottawa is left to cover: $900 million (43% of project cost)
Amount that Toronto is left to cover: $0 (0% of project cost)

Amount that was contributed to K-W by the Province: $300 million
Amount that was contributed to Ottawa by the Province: $600 million
Amount that was contributed to Toronto by the Province: $8,150 million

Ratio of population to Provincial funding for K-W: $609/person
Ratio of population to Provincial funding for Ottawa: $738/person
Ratio of population to Provincial funding for Toronto: $3255/person

 

[rbt]

Ratio of population to Provincial funding for K-W: $609/person
Ratio of population to Provincial funding for Ottawa: $738/person
Ratio of population to Provincial funding for Toronto: $3255/person

Unfortunately this is a very poor way of looking at it from an ROI perspective, not to mention leaving out a large number of pieces of additional work taking place in Toronto like Spadina subway and Union Station (both pretty expensive). The really important number, for actual cost of a project, is how quickly will it pay down its debt in the form of new revenues generated.

A $100B investment in one location may well be cheaper (cheaper defined as better for the provinces long-term financial situation) over a 50 year period than a $1 investment in a different location.

While it doesn't seem fair, the best way to ensure we can provide an education and health care to Ontarians in the future is to ensure our infrastructure investments have high ROI.


If I was prime minister I would be tempted to create a $1B/year slush fund. Municipalities can pull from it when they can show a 10% ROI to the province via operational savings/income/sales/property tax and that they have met their maintenance obligations of existing infrastructure. ($1B per year is roughly 3 subway lines under construction simultaneously.) Preference is given to small dollar value projects for the same reasons a diversified portfolio is recommended.

Take that 10% (this means measuring actual results) and reinvest it back to the slush fund. Any unclaimed revenue in a year goes against the debt. Health care, Education, and tax cuts come from the interest saved on the debt and our ability to borrow more (increased revenues).

 

[BMO]

if waterloo turns down the LRT I really lose all hope for the region to actually become a desirable location to live. After 3 years of studying at UW, The region is one of the least pedestrian friendly places I've ever lived in, and one of the hardest cities to get around. IMO

 

[Markster]

Unfortunately this is a very poor way of looking at it from an ROI perspective, not to mention leaving out a large number of pieces of additional work taking place in Toronto like Spadina subway and Union Station (both pretty expensive). The really important number, for actual cost of a project, is how quickly will it pay down its debt in the form of new revenues generated.

It's also a very narrow, selective view designed to make the funding look as lopsided as possible.
You can't simply ignore federal funding.
Further, you may as well include the Spadina extension if you want to pad out the Toronto funding as much as possible. And add the Sheppard extension to what Toronto has left to cover.

if waterloo turns down the LRT I really lose all hope for the region to actually become a desirable location to live. After 3 years of studying at UW, The region is one of the least pedestrian friendly places I've ever lived in, and one of the hardest cities to get around. IMO

Move closer to King St, and your opinion will change.
Where have you lived?

 

[nfitz]

I lived in Waterloo for years, and never found it hard to get around without a car. A bicycle was really useful ... however GRT worked well enough in the winter.

 

[BMO]

It's also a very narrow, selective view designed to make the funding look as lopsided as possible.
You can't simply ignore federal funding.
Further, you may as well include the Spadina extension if you want to pad out the Toronto funding as much as possible. And add the Sheppard extension to what Toronto has left to cover.



Move closer to King St, and your opinion will change.
Where have you lived?

I been living on Keats Way. Where two full buses pass through, and yet they always seem to be everything except for on time. King St is much further from UW. All my classes are on on the south west portion of the campus.

I lived in Waterloo for years, and never found it hard to get around without a car. A bicycle was really useful ... however GRT worked well enough in the winter.

I don't own a bike, and my classes have been throughout the winters mostly due to co-op, so taking a bike isn't really feasible for me. I either just walk or take the transit, or if it's the winter I'll drive to school.

The buses don't come very often so I'll often be forced to drive or cab to somewhere in the evening if I want to get there on time.

If the buses were a better frequency like 15-20 mins that would suffice (it is similar to that frequency at peak hours), but in the evening or any time outside of 9-6 I'm shit out of luck if I need to get to campus quickly to work in the design studio or GIS lab.

It's ironic because in my planning classes we learn about mixed-use living and transit as alternatives yet most of my class of urban planners actually drive to campus, which is a testament to how bad/ inconvenient the system really is. We get a free bus pass, and yet because it's not reliable or fast. The people (planners) who promote transit/ alternative transport methods, choose to drive.

 

[nfitz]

I been living on Keats Way. Where two full buses pass through, and yet they always seem to be everything except for on time. King St is much further from UW. All my classes are on on the south west portion of the campus.

I used to live near Keats and Churchill. I just walked or cycled. Cycling is fine most of the time, except January and February. And faster than driving to campus and finding a spot. Though back when I was a student, a car wasn't a financially possible option; so one always made sure one was no more than a half-hour walk from campus.

Can't say I ever took the bus that way ... not sure there was one down Keats Way back then.

 

[Markster]

Welcome to the suburbs.

If it's any consolation, they're improving the services on Keat's Way in the next couple of months. The meandering 12 will be running solely on Westmount, which should cure some schedule irregularities, and the 29 is getting a boost too.

Also, to say that "King St much farther" seems odd. King and University isn't much farther than most of Keat's Way. And University has drastically better bus service on that stretch.

 

[BMO]

Welcome to the suburbs.

If it's any consolation, they're improving the services on Keat's Way in the next couple of months. The meandering 12 will be running solely on Westmount, which should cure some schedule irregularities, and the 29 is getting a boost too.

Also, to say that "King St much farther" seems odd. King and University isn't much farther than most of Keat's Way. And University has drastically better bus service on that stretch.

Thanks for the Info Markster I look forward to the improved 29 service!

 

[afransen]

You could build a lot of PRT for a billion dollars. KW doesn't seem to have high enough demand on King to need LRT, and even then, you just double or triple up guideway along parallel streets if more capacity is needed. PRT would be able to meet the demand required and be faster to boot. They could throw in a spur down university to hit the two Universities, RIM and the technology park to boot.

 

[Mapleson]

You could build a lot of PRT for a billion dollars. KW doesn't seem to have high enough demand on King to need LRT, and even then, you just double or triple up guideway along parallel streets if more capacity is needed. PRT would be able to meet the demand required and be faster to boot. They could throw in a spur down university to hit the two Universities, RIM and the technology park to boot.

I think you over estimate the construction value of a billion dollars. How many grade-seperations or elevators for an elevated system would you need? "Parallel" streets in KW have a tendency to cross.