Waterloo Region Transit Developments (ION LRT, new terminal, GRT buses)

[steveintoronto]

Fairway would be a long way off the route, but GO buses should stop at Borden and Charles (right now, they stop in front of the Rockway Centre, the old southern end of the Kitchener-Waterloo streetcar/trolleybus). Personally, I would love to see the Sportsworld stop removed for route 25. I also don't care for how much time it takes to get on and off the 401 for the Aberfoyle park and ride.

Just looking at the 200 iX schedule now: http://web.grt.ca/HastinfoWeb/Route...0&ShowOptions=false&SelectedStopsIdentifiers= and I see frequency has increased to every ten minutes, which makes options far easier for somehow getting from the GO #25 or #30 across somehow to catch it.

Just noticed the 200 iX does stop at "Sportsworld Station"! Whoa...why haven't I noticed this before? I've got to find a map that overlays GO and GRT routes. Anyone?

Quick question to those 'in the know': Is this is close as I can get to catching a 200 iX south from the GO #30 or #25 stop(s) on King?

http://web.grt.ca/HastinfoWeb/Route...0&ShowOptions=false&SelectedStopsIdentifiers=

Further addendum: Just called GO Transit (what a nightmare that is, after trying to find info on their website, and Googling taking me to TripLinx just to find a map) only to find that the GO #30 doesn't stop at Sportsworld Drive, only the #25 bus. Oh Lordy, Lordy...

Time to start cruising Kijiji and Craig's List for ride shares...

 

[Streety McCarface]

Just looking at the 200 iX schedule now: http://web.grt.ca/HastinfoWeb/Route...0&ShowOptions=false&SelectedStopsIdentifiers= and I see frequency has increased to every ten minutes, which makes options far easier for somehow getting from the GO #25 or #30 across somehow to catch it.

Just noticed the 200 iX does stop at "Sportsworld Station"! Whoa...why haven't I noticed this before? I've got to find a map that overlays GO and GRT routes. Anyone?

Quick question to those 'in the know': Is this is close as I can get to catching a 200 iX south from the GO #30 or #25 stop(s) on King?

http://web.grt.ca/HastinfoWeb/Route...0&ShowOptions=false&SelectedStopsIdentifiers=

Further addendum: Just called GO Transit (what a nightmare that is, after trying to find info on their website, and Googling taking me to TripLinx just to find a map) only to find that the GO #30 doesn't stop at Sportsworld Drive, only the #25 bus. Oh Lordy, Lordy...

Time to start cruising Kijiji and Craig's List for ride shares...

Route 30 is just an express service that heads to downtown Kitchener, meant to be a continuation of the Kitchener line. It's not considered part of the route 25 (Milton) network, which exists mainly to serve the Universities and Cambridge, while also serving some local services in downtown and at sports world.

 

[steveintoronto]

Route 30 is just an express service that heads to downtown Kitchener, meant to be a continuation of the Kitchener line. It's not considered part of the route 25 (Milton) network, which exists mainly to serve the Universities and Cambridge, while also serving some local services in downtown and at sports world.

I'm fully aware of that, but that's a huge problem for those in southern Kitchener and northern Cambridge, having to go all the way into Charles to come all the way back out again, and btw, last few times I did that, Presto charged me for the added mileage instead of subtracting it. That's not how Presto's supposed to work, but I digress.

The Guelph equivalent of the #30, for the two short years (if that) that it ran the #39, used to make stops on the way into Guelph, even though it too was an 'express' originating at Bramalea. (and it still matched the train for travel times between the two points, (Guelph Central to Bramalea GO) even with the slower speed and stops up Hwy 6/Gordon Street. For it not to stop at the University Loop and Aberfoyle would have been the cause of riots in the streets, even though the route died of apathy since it wasn't promoted. (I found out about it by accident, wondering what the "39" was for on various stops in Guelph and south)

How would you like to take a train westbound to Scarborough, but only have the option of getting off at Union, and then take another train back again? And being charged for twice the extra distance not needed, let alone the time and hassle?

In the event, I do remember being on the #30 westbound and the driver stopping by request at Sportsworld Dr. Gosh, took all of two minutes to do it, if that.

 

[Fritter]

How would you like to take a train westbound to Scarborough, but only have the option of getting off at Union, and then take another train back again? And being charged for twice the extra distance not needed, let alone the time and hassle?

Not overwhelming number of passengers, but if you take GO from Oshawa/Whitby/Ajax etc to Milliken/Agincourt you need to take the Lakeshore East train all the way to Union then back track on the Stouffiville line. You will also be charged the back tracking distance as well.

 

[steveintoronto]

if you take GO from Oshawa/Whitby/Ajax etc to Milliken/Agincourt you need to take the Lakeshore East train all the way to Union then back track on the Stouffiville line. You will also be charged the back tracking distance as well.

Takes us off the forum premise, but it's an essential point. If you bought a paper ticket, would the fare be cheaper? On the trains, I failed to mention that if you don't tap-off and back on at Union, you're charged just by the distance in zones you begin and end your trip with if you use Presto. On a bus, you can't get around that using Presto (I think, although I haven't tested that, has anyone? Responses welcome! It would be getting off the bus with an open ticket still. Presto might have a conniption). Paper tickets would also be calculated by the distance, not the route (I believe, can never get a definitive answer)

So my analogy was stymied from the start, but raises some other interesting issues. The implications for being charged 'back-tracking' fly in the face of what their by-law states. I'll find and quote it later.

There was always an anomaly too with UPE, sometimes it glitched, other times not. GO Transit staff recommended (contrary to their written missives) to "Just tap on at your train start, tap off at your final train destination. Your open ticket is good for three hours ". I never had the glitch occur again. And now they've separated UPE completely again as fare policy.

 

[steveintoronto]

^ To further complicate 'who knows what':

Contrary to what GO customer service and their own timetable and map show, this shows something different again:

https://www.triplinx.ca/en/route-sc...hener-go-kitchener-go-bus/2?Hour=14&Minute=52

This is really starting to pizz me off big time...

Does GO even know where they run their own buses, and what stops they use?

Now to overlay this with the GRT map https://www.grt.ca/en/schedules-maps/resources/2017-18-transit-map-KW-side-April_04.pdf to see where the nearest ION or 200iX stop is, will be, might never be, or never was...according to those that don't know, should know, never know, don't exist.

And lo and behold!

link above

Here's a concept for someone with the power: Publish a map that shows *all* modes of transit on the shttps://www.grt.ca/en/schedules-maps/resources/2017-18-transit-map-KW-side-April_04.pdfame map. They even manage that in Third World Countries. Btw: The Triplinx map is *far, far better* than what Metrolinx themselves publish.

I presume there is a GRT stop at the corner of Montgomery and King. I'll phone GRT tomorrow to check, my head is spinning from checking so many maps to find this information.

 

[awaterwell]

To save you the trouble:

It looks like GO only lists major stops on their official schedules. GRT seems to list them all on the schedule, but not on timetables. It doesn't help that Montgomery changes its name to Dixon as it crosses King St. The GRT system map only shows stops for iXpress routes, not regular ones.

(edited several times to insert missing words)

Further edit: the shared stop also has 3 names. The southbound stop is called King / Charles by GO, and King / Rockway Gardens by GRT. The northbound stop is called King / Montgomery by both GO and GRT.

 

[steveintoronto]

It looks like GO only lists major stops on their official schedules.

Which I had presumed, and so I called them. They said that that there was none. Also to get the 200iX, I have to take the GRT 7 to Fairview Mall.

It all approaches the Theatre of the Absurd. If I wish to eliminate the jog through Kitchener to get to the south end of Cambridge, my other option is to take the train from Bloor to Bramalea (where I would have meshed with the #30 GO bus, it's timed to meet the train), take a 46? 47? 48? (I can't remember which now) bus to Square One, wait approx half an hour, then take the GO #25 to Cambridge Smart Centre, cycle across to Pinebush and 24, catch the 200iX down to Ainslee. I cycle on road (the cycle lane on 24 by the river last half a km is closed, very dangerous) to where the Trail starts. That trail is Nirvana with a few exceptions in Brantford, which I've now found a work-around for. (Stay to the south of the Grand to by-pass Brantford)

Or forget about taking transit at all, which is becoming my preferred option at this point in time. I'm a very capable cyclist, still able to put in a 100 km on a good day (weather permitting) but three months away from being seventy years old. Ironically, years of thyroid cancer has left me with the body of forty year old. The cycling I can manage, the stress of dealing with institutions who haven't a clue I can't. All it takes is one fuck-up in that stream of connections to ruin the day. And chances are high that one will. It's not just me to worry about, it's also a close to priceless reconfigured Argos Racing renovated forty year old classic that I have to worry about. (Three rebuilds back, I widened the gearing and beefed up the wheels for touring in lieu of racing. It's an eager machine)
Argos Racing Cycles
Cycling associates think I'm crazy taking it on the GO, let alone the GRT cycle racks which are poor, and I'm leaning towards agreeing. But to do the distance, you need an enthusiastic quality machine.

I've been in nations where * transit competitors* make it easier to interconnect than is typical in Ontario with ostensibly 'integrated' operations. I know Metrolinx has 'cool relations' with some city/regional operators (TTC, GRT etc) but c'mon! Is it any wonder obesity is such a problem in this province and nation? https://infobase.phac-aspc.gc.ca/datalab/adult-obesity-blog-en.html

 

[Coolstar]

Looks like next week we might know if the LRT will open this spring or not!

 

[Kyle Campbell]

Really, the trains still aren't done? Ottawa might win the "race" yet, all 34 trains are now certified for the confederation line. The final 12 day service simulation is going to start any day now.

 

[Coolstar]

Really, the trains still aren't done? Ottawa might win the "race" yet, all 34 trains are now certified for the confederation line. The final 12 day service simulation is going to start any day now.

Yeah but thanks to the flooding there I think Ion might win the race. Hey who do you think is gonna win the race? My bet is on Ion

 

[KevinT]

Really, the trains still aren't done?

I'd take that with a grain of salt. "Blame Bombardier" has been Waterloo Region's catch-all excuse for years now, and its wearing pretty thin on me. No trains have been spotted testing between the Mill and Fairway crossovers for weeks now, and the signal heads for the embedded track crossovers at Cameron and Green are still bagged over. I don't see how those items can be pinned on train performance, and it does a real disservice to Bombardier's Kingston employees to suggest otherwise.

I'm a huge fan of the ION system and our regional council for making it happen, but given the intensive testing seen in Ottawa lately and the same-old same-old smattering of vehicles doing operator training runs here in Waterloo, my mental needle is reluctantly swinging over to Ottawa as the front runner.

 

[Kyle Campbell]

Yeah but thanks to the flooding there I think Ion might win the race. Hey who do you think is gonna win the race? My bet is on Ion

Despite living in Ottawa, I really hope Ion "wins". Ottawa is just another big city metro, except oddly using low floor trains.

Ion is a first for this continent, proving that rail has a future in mid sized cities as well.

 

[kEiThZ]

Despite living in Ottawa, I really hope Ion "wins". Ottawa is just another big city metro, except oddly using low floor trains.

Ion is a first for this continent, proving that rail has a future in mid sized cities as well.

I am happy for KWC residents. But I really don't get what's all that unique about ION beyond KWC just being smaller than average in North America for LRT. Elsewhere, it would be perfectly normal for a city of half a million to have an LRT. The real test will be to show they have the ridership to justify the ~$900 million spent. Because if the ridership isn't spectacular there will be lots of communities asking if they should bother with LRT until they have a million residents. And it's definitely debatable. $900 million spent on BRT and tons of new buses would also have done a lot.

Ottawa is unique for showing the scalability of transit. I think Ottawa has sort of shown the path to building transit for small and medium cities. Deploy BRT relatively easily and quickly and reserve the corridors early. Build grade separations where possible cheaply. And then convert to rail when ridership and/or limitations warrant it. Successful conversion to LRT for half the rapid transit network after Stage 2 would be a huge validation of their strategy. In a decade and a half they will have built 56 km of grade separated rail transit. That would be an accomplishment anywhere. Even beyond the low standards of Canada and the US.

 

[Coolstar]