Waterloo Region Transit Developments (ION LRT, new terminal, GRT buses)

[Kyle Campbell]

Yes, and that's sad. The Calgary example should be more the norm than the exception, but i think because of politics projects are always planned with rose coloured glasses on and only the slimmest of contingency budgets and schedule slack

 

[micheal_can]

Yes, and that's sad. The Calgary example should be more the norm than the exception, but i think because of politics projects are always planned with rose coloured glasses on and only the slimmest of contingency budgets and schedule slack

That is because these projects are election issues. So, they need to be promised early and under budget.

 

[KevinT]

While in Ottawa it seems our consortium can't get the stations done, it does seem like having the trains assembled on site was a wise decision. Except for losing some parts for the last two vehicles the whole thing went way smoother than things for the TTC, Metrolinx, or Ion with the flexities

The other thing Ottawa had going for it is that the trains and the system integration equipment were all spec'd up front. Thanks to Metrolinx' politics, Bombardier was forced to build trains without this stuff in it and then figure out how to integrate the equipment chosen by Waterloo Region after the fact. Not the smartest way to build a system.

 

[smallspy]

Ottawa is different, yes, but Waterloo's project isn't nearly as complicated as any other light rail project in the country. Half of it was built along underutilized freight ROWs, with the other half street running. It involved no tunnels, no significant bridge/viaduct work, no new ROW construction/expropriation (on street ROW being the exception), or any other problems we tend to see with larger projects like RER or subway extensions.

Except for the obvious fact that it was being done on an active railway line, while it was still being used, and thus requires much additional equipment to operate with.

The beauty of a greenfield installation on something like the O-Train is that you can test it to your hearts content at any time you want, and to whatever standard you wish. With a brownfield installation, your time to install, debug and test is far more limited.

If Ion was built on its own alignment with its own tracks, there's a very good chance that it could be open now as there would not be as much of a need for so much specialized equipment.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[crs1026]

I’m having a seniors’ moment recalling the week before the B-D Subway opening in 1966, when as a young boy my grandfather took me for a “last ride” on the Bloor streetcar. Somehow our car got short turned at Woodbine, and we found ourselves in the new loop for the shuttle. My grandfather, who had the gift of gab, talked our way downstairs for a look at the as-yet-unopened station. We were dumbfounded to find a fully-operating subway service doing shakedown and training runs. I never dawned on me that a new subway would have a break-in process.... valuable learning!
I don’t have any data on how long it took TTC to put he B-D line in service, but it sure seems like commissioning takes longer and longer with every project. More complex technology, to be sure....

- Paul

 

[jordanmkasla2009]

It doesn't matter if they represent the best practices in the world. Here in Waterloo, there's a significant base of individuals who absolutely hate the LRT, and their base is only growing larger because of the fact that bombardier and grandlinq can't seem to get their sh!t together.

Bombardier has had its sh!t together for a while. Grandlinq had this equipment spec'd since 2014. The Region of Waterloo however delayed the signing of this second contract until the last possible second for God only knows what reason.

I'm finding a lot of problems with the iON LRT, particularly along the GEXR Elmira Sub.

CN Waterloo Spur.

There should have been provisions to include a bus looping facility at the Northfield stop,

Wasn't possible or practical given GRT's plans for buses.

speeds along the segregated ROW should not be limited to 40 km/h, especially since it's separated from traffic,

Speeds are only limited in the high traffic area that is the UW campus or on approach to stations.

the bus terminal at UW hasn't commenced construction and won't serve University Avenue buses (which is a huge disincentive of using the LRT),

Blame UW for this. They were being stubborn over what buses they would allow on Ring Road.

there are already signs of wheel flat on the LRVs

That one vehicle that (allegedly) had wheel flats is being used to debug the software integrations of the new specialized equipment and those sorts of issues were expected. That specialized equipment BTW is used to apply the emergency brakes if the operator:

• Doesn't acknowledge a change in signal state
• Doesn't acknowledge the transition from LOS to ATP
• Doesn't apply Full Service brakes in time to stop at a non-permissive signal.
• Attempts to drive through a non-permissive signal without a CCF clearance.

many of the stations don't have heaters, and there weren't provisions for a McCormick stop along the line. I'm honestly concerned for the LRT's ridership given these issues.

A stop at McCormick would have been too close to both R&T and Northfield and would have reduced average speed through the Waterloo Spur segment significantly. It would also have had significant impact to the Laurel Creek. The lack of heaters won't make much of an impact to ridership when peak service is for 8 minutes at the start and scaling down to 5 minute minimum in the future.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I don’t have any data on how long it took TTC to put he B-D line in service, but it sure seems like commissioning takes longer and longer with every project. More complex technology, to be sure....

When the new extension to Vaughn opened up on YUS line they started running "ghost trains" to Vaughn about a month before the scheduled opening day. The trains would pull into Sheppard west station (Downsview) and then offloaded before they continued all the way north and turned around their stopping at every stop along the way and opening the doors just as if they were in service before heading back to Sheppard wet to pick up new passengers heading south, Similarly when they were starting to test the Toronto Rocket train they would pull into stations and open the doors on the wrong side to the platforms.

 

[robmausser]

Name me one rail transit project that has been done on schedule in Canada.

The UPX was finished on time. Also over budget though. It had to be on time though, for the PanAm Games.

 

[hw621]

I’m having a seniors’ moment recalling the week before the B-D Subway opening in 1966, when as a young boy my grandfather took me for a “last ride” on the Bloor streetcar. Somehow our car got short turned at Woodbine, and we found ourselves in the new loop for the shuttle. My grandfather, who had the gift of gab, talked our way downstairs for a look at the as-yet-unopened station. We were dumbfounded to find a fully-operating subway service doing shakedown and training runs. I never dawned on me that a new subway would have a break-in process.... valuable learning!
I don’t have any data on how long it took TTC to put he B-D line in service, but it sure seems like commissioning takes longer and longer with every project. More complex technology, to be sure....

- Paul

Isn't technology supposed to make it easier and faster?

 

[W. K. Lis]

Isn't technology supposed to make it easier and faster?

More stronger building codes, more stringent safety codes, environmental assessments, community meetings, etc. makes it harder and slower.

 

[hw621]

More stronger building codes, more stringent safety codes, environmental assessments, community meetings, etc. makes it harder and slower.

The question then should be these are really necessary. Infrastructure built under the older standards seem to fair pretty well.

 

[crs1026]

The UPX was finished on time. Also over budget though. It had to be on time though, for the PanAm Games.

Pardon my nitpick: UPX opened on time. The amount of finishing up work after opening day was excessive. Some of that work continued after the project books were closed... ie, costs were hidden in other accounts so the overspend could be papered over.

- Paul

 

[Kyle Campbell]

The UPX was finished on time. Also over budget though. It had to be on time though, for the PanAm Games.

The Canada line was on time and on budget which is a unicorn among unicorns, but i think it's pretty obvious now the very severe compromises that were made to get there.

 

[Kyle Campbell]

Pardon my nitpick: UPX opened on time. The amount of finishing up work after opening day was excessive. Some of that work continued after the project books were closed... ie, costs were hidden in other accounts so the overspend could be papered over.

- Paul

I think this is why the confed line will beat Ion to revenue service. Like UPX it will open (not on time) but with a bunch of leftovers to do. It's much easier to fudge the leftover bits of stations than the trains themselves

 

[kEiThZ]

I think this is why the confed line will beat Ion to revenue service. Like UPX it will open (not on time) but with a bunch of leftovers to do. It's much easier to fudge the leftover bits of stations than the trains themselves

They had that option. Ottawa turned it down. It's a massive change from buses to LRT. And they intend do it with one shot. They refused even having just one Rideau Centre entrance not completed.

But at the rate Ion is going, it looks like I might win my bet on Ottawa!