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Waterfront Transit Reset Phase 1 Study

How should Toronto connect the East and West arms of the planned waterfront transit with downtown?

  • Expand the existing Union loop

    Votes: 205 71.2%

  • Build a Western terminus

    Votes: 13 4.5%

  • Route service along Queen's Quay with pedestrian/cycle/bus connection to Union

    Votes: 31 10.8%

  • Connect using existing Queen's Quay/Union Loop and via King Street

    Votes: 22 7.6%

  • Other

    Votes: 17 5.9%
  • Total voters
    288
junctionist said:
In that case, let's ask for a short subway line between the Port Lands and the downtown core like Montreal's Yellow Line. It could be built using Ontario Line-style trains and one day be extended to Ontario Place or the dense neighbourhoods near the lake in the west end (e.g Parkdale and Humber Bay Shores).
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Yes, a typical Toronto suggestion where we make good plans but get impatient at how long they take to be funded and implemented so we tear them up and make new plans. Then repeat!
 
DSC said:
Yes, a typical Toronto suggestion where we make good plans but get impatient at how long they take to be funded and implemented so we tear them up and make new plans. Then repeat!
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The streetcar could be built as local transit, but the density and destinations along the waterfront seem to justify an Ontario Line-style rapid transit line. I agree with everyone saying that there should have already been a streetcar by now and would like to see what's planned get built.

We might as well also start building the rapid transit line. Thus, we need to get the NDP and Liberals to build the light rail they seem to love when they're in power, and get the Conservatives to build their subways when they're in power. Both sides need to finish the projects that have already been started.
 
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This update in the Board Book for the WT Board next week:

Waterfront East LRT

The Waterfront East LRT is a planned light rail transit line extending from Union Stationto Villiers Island, via Cherry Street and Commissioners Street; along with an extension of the existing 504A King Street streetcar from the current Distillery Loop to Villiers Island. This project will provide improved transit options to the Central Waterfront, Lower Yonge, East Bayfront, Quayside, Keating Precinct, Lower Don Lands, and the Port Lands communities and is an integral part of the future development of new communities on Villiers Island and the eastern waterfront.

When fully built, the Waterfront East LRT is proposed to extend over 3.8 kms, and is forecasted to provide over 50,000 daily trips, supporting an estimated 100,000 residents in the Eastern Waterfront. Waterfront Toronto, in partnership with the City and TTC, is advancing the design to 60%for two segments, comprising all above-ground components of the line. The required funding agreement with the City of Toronto has been completed, and design work is well underway.  The detailed design is expected to be complete in mid-2025, with potential early delivery of the Yonge Slip and Queens Quay extension early works.

Waterfront Toronto also continues to advance approvals for the Waterfront East LRT. The Minister’s review period for the Transit and Rail Project Assessment Process has closed, and the Statement of Completion will be finalized in coordination with the City to formally complete the process. As part of discussions with all orders of government as it relates to the Next Phase of Waterfront Revitalization, staff are also looking at phased solutions for advancing transit in the eastern waterfront prior to the full implementation of the WERLT in order to provide the required increased service in the area.

More optimistic than most of the Reports on this project so 'stay tuned'.
 
Allandale25 said:
^ I wonder what a phased approach would look like?
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The most likely is to ONLY build the surface connection along QQE and not do much or anything to the (much more expensive) tunnel under Bay and up to an expanded Union Loop. In fact, WT is only responsible for the QQE portion, the TTC are looking after (or not looking after) the tunnel/loop. I think the question will be whether a link to the existing track at Cherry is (financially) feasible.
 
DSC said:
The most likely is to ONLY build the surface connection along QQE and not do much or anything to the (much more expensive) tunnel under Bay and up to an expanded Union Loop. In fact, WT is only responsible for the QQE portion, the TTC are looking after (or not looking after) the tunnel/loop. I think the question will be whether a link to the existing track at Cherry is (financially) feasible.
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Bypassing the Union Loop and Tunnel has been my calling for since 2019 and still am. This will allow a full e-w line on QQ. Another phase could be the connection to Cherry St Loop that is part of WT responsibility and can see this happening.

Until TTC and the city can find the money to do it Union, block off the tunnel entrance until it done, but build the wye connection.

What has seem to disappeared and the responsibility of the city was upgrading Bay St that was to be done at the same time as the tunnel work.
 
Given how we aren't yet able to close the deal on Union expansion, I think we just need to build the QQE line with the connection at Bay. Hopefully someone pulls their head out of their ass and finds the money for it, but once people move into Villers and it isn't done, I think you'll find many people ready to advocate for it to the politicians and media.
 
max said:
Given how we aren't yet able to close the deal on Union expansion, I think we just need to build the QQE line with the connection at Bay. Hopefully someone pulls their head out of their ass and finds the money for it, but once people move into Villers and it isn't done, I think you'll find many people ready to advocate for it to the politicians and media.
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One would think so but that has NOT happened with Queen's Quay where buyers/developers of land were promised an LRT a decade ago!
 
DSC said:
One would think so but that has NOT happened with Queen's Quay where buyers/developers of land were promised an LRT a decade ago!
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I think they will be more vocal if the streetcar exists but doesn't go to Union. With no streetcar, and just a bus I expect many residents will either have cars or buy them and never bother with transit, as I suspect has happened along QQE.
 
max said:
I think they will be more vocal if the streetcar exists but doesn't go to Union. With no streetcar, and just a bus I expect many residents will either have cars or buy them and never bother with transit, as I suspect has happened along QQE.
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I highly doubt it. A streetcar on QQ meets 90% of the local residents’ immediate transit needs, of which they should know that the walk to Union from QQ is immaterial, if a bit inconvenient. It’s leagues different from not having any transit at all 1-2km from the core.
 
Especially with the number of people living and working in the south core these days vs north of union station. But to get people working in the offices on QQ, Quayside, Lower Don Lands and MacLeary onto transit, you probably need a connection to Union.
 
evandyk said:
Especially with the number of people living and working in the south core these days vs north of union station. But to get people working in the offices on QQ, Quayside, Lower Don Lands and MacLeary onto transit, you probably need a connection to Union.
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If and when Cherry St Line connects to QQE/Villager, it will provide another option for not using Union

Depending on who is running TTTC as well in Planning and Scheduling, you may see another line or two servicing QQE/Village that been talked about over the last few decades when the lines open.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
From the October WT DRP:


AoD
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It’s not the focus of this review but there is a glimpse of how Queens Quay interfaces with the new Cherry St, which I believe is new:
IMG_2994.jpeg

IMG_2993.jpeg


Also of note, there are changes to the typical road section. No more green track on LRT guideway to support fire, EMS, and replacement bus service. As a result, the 2 lane roadway can be reduced from 8.5m to 6.6m width. This saved width will go to additional green infrastructure.
 
It seems they have looked at other ROWs where center poles mean buses can't run on the tracks when the streetcar is interrupted. Trying to run bustitution in the remaining narrow car lanes would be a nightmare. Losing the green track is probably a good compromise.
 
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