Waterfront Transit Reset Phase 1 Study

[nfitz]

Why was the road bridge prioritized over the transit bridge?

The bridge they get allows streetcars onto Villiers Island. And that's not expected to go into service for years (though why they can't just do the Cherry underpass as part of the Gardiner work ending in 2030 and extend the 504A in the interim, until they can rebuild the Union streetcar terminal I don't know).

I have no idea when they are planning to start developing along Commissioners, east of the new Don River bridge. They've got all the land bounded by the new Gardiner along the tracks, the Don, Keating Channel, and Parliament street first - which I think is even bigger than Villiers Island!

This is where the Portland tracks will crossover the Lake Shore to go under the RR corridor that will be near the north pier support of the Gardiner

Though that section of the Gardiner will be demolished, with the new link, much narrower and hugging the tracks.

 

[kv1990]

This might be silly idea but just thinking ... was there an opportunity to to put the street car platforms underneath the new south concourse at union? and have a pedestrian runnel to the subway platform?

 

[nfitz]

If assume it was possible. But it would complicate Metrolinx's discussions to build deep-level platforms for GO services.

 

[drum118]

The bridge they get allows streetcars onto Villiers Island. And that's not expected to go into service for years (though why they can't just do the Cherry underpass as part of the Gardiner work ending in 2030 and extend the 504A in the interim, until they can rebuild the Union streetcar terminal I don't know).

I have no idea when they are planning to start developing along Commissioners, east of the new Don River bridge. They've got all the land bounded by the new Gardiner along the tracks, the Don, Keating Channel, and Parliament street first - which I think is even bigger than Villiers Island!

Though that section of the Gardiner will be demolished, with the new link, much narrower and hugging the tracks.

It still has to get under the Gardiner one way or another in what every form the Gardiner is in to go under the embankment to the east of Cherry St. When will that happen, who knows with Ford in charge of the Gardiner now.

 

[DSC]

It still has to get under the Gardiner one way or another in what every form the Gardiner is in to go under the embankment to the east of Cherry St. When will that happen, who knows with Ford in charge of the Gardiner now.

The problem with extending the Cherry St line south to Queen's Quay and Villiers Island is not going under the Gardiner, the problem is going under the rail tracks. This can certainly be solved with $$$$ as they have put several similar links in - e.g. Simcoe south of Front was built in ca 2008. Lots of designs of the Cherry St proposal further up this thread and on WT website. I bet that the line along QQE to Cherry and Commissioners will come first (by many years) but even that (though it's been a City priority for a decade) shows little signs of being funded - the most expensive part of THAT segment is expanding the link to Union Station and expanding the loop there.

 

[drum118]

The problem with extending the Cherry St line south to Queen's Quay and Villiers Island is not going under the Gardiner, the problem is going under the rail tracks. This can certainly be solved with $$$$ as they have put several similar links in - e.g. Simcoe south of Front was built in ca 2008. Lots of designs of the Cherry St proposal further up this thread and on WT website. I bet that the line along QQE to Cherry and Commissioners will come first (by many years) but even that (though it's been a City priority for a decade) shows little signs of being funded - the most expensive part of THAT segment is expanding the link to Union Station and expanding the loop there.

Even before 2010, various options were looked at and were outside our scope at the time with a new underpass wider than the current one costing around $50 million back then. As far I am concern, it is still the best option, but we are dealing with a different rail corridor today than it was plan 15 years ago.

Even the current option moving the ROW to the east is not going to be cheap and it could be done like they did for Hurontario LRT push box at Port Credit. Down side to that will require every track in the corridor to have bridge tracks in place to allow the push box to be push under the corridor while trains are running. The trains will be running at a slower speed level and having an effect on the service level.

Yes, the QQE will be up and running long before the Cherry St extension happens, but how many of us will be around to see it happen??

 

[rbt]

This might be silly idea but just thinking ... was there an opportunity to to put the street car platforms underneath the new south concourse at union? and have a pedestrian runnel to the subway platform?

The below image is from the 2019 report. GOs new platform is where the south tracks are in this image.

I can see a few challenges:

• The curve to that south track space would be really tight. The arena office building foundation probably gets in the way.
• Black squares are railway support pillars. A few of those are in the way too and moving them is non-trivial.
• It would be a deadend track and require double-ended rolling stock. IMO, TTC should be heading this direction anyway despite a small loss in capacity.
• Barrier free transfer to the subway looks doable but would be a long walk.

 

[Jeff Morgan]

A new video on the case for the Waterfront LRT ->

 

[CapitalSeven]

Sure, but Toronto knew this two decades ago. Note the date in this excerpt from a Planning and Transportation Committee agenda. Twenty years ago yesterday. I know I've posted and referred to this before but still not much has actually happened. The next generation of buildings on the waterfront is nearing completion and the transit gap just looks sadder and sadder. The latest development is to break up the Bay and Pape buses into shorter segments. Groundbreaking. Other cities have built whole systems in the interim.

.

 

[Jeff Morgan]

When is the next round of designs expected to be complete? What is the next step?

 

[DSC]

When is the next round of designs expected to be complete? What is the next step?

Based on past experience over the last 15 years the next stage is to move one step forward and at least half a step back. Info on "progress' is on WT website

Project Status​

In November 2023, City Staff reported to Toronto City Council on the completed 30% design and costing, preliminary design business case, and constructability assessment for the Waterfront East LRT. Council adopted recommendations including approval of the project alignment, funding and direction to undertake 60% design of Segments 2 and 3 of the project (Queens Quay to Villiers Loop and Cherry north connection), and direction to secure environmental approvals for all Segments of the project, among other items.


A Transit and Rail Project Assessment Process (TRAP) to update the previous Environmental Assessments is also underway. The official Notice of Commencement and how to provide comments on the draft Environmental Project Report can be found on the City of Toronto’s website.

The City website linked to above says:

The latest phase of work has seen the City, TTC and Waterfront Toronto advance the design for Segments 1, 2, and 3 to the 30% level, while completing a Constructability Review, Business Case, and associated Class 3 Cost Estimates. These materials were brought forward in a report to City Council in November 2023 , with the recommended alignment from Union Station to a new loop on Villiers Island receiving approval. Staff were further directed to advance the design of Segments 2 and 3 (Queens Quay from Bay Street to Cherry Street, Cherry Street from Distillery Loop to Commissioners Street, and Commissioners Street from Cherry to Villiers Park Road) to the 60% level. Environmental approvals will be sought through the Transit Project Assessment Process for the portion of the project running from Union Station to Silo Street, with the remainder being covered by an update letter to the Lower Don Lands Environmental Assessment Master Plan. Work on the 60% design phase will commence in 2024.

 

[drum118]

Following our issuance of the Notice of Commencement on March 14, 2024, the project team has continued to refine the Environmental Project Report (EPR) with additional input from stakeholders, regulatory agencies, and Indigenous communities. The updated EPR is now available for a 30-day final review period. Please find the Notice of Completion attached for more information and details on where to find physical copies of the EPR. We also encourage you to review the materials on the City of Toronto website.

Please contact the project team at waterfrontlrt@toronto.ca or 416-214-9990 if you have any feedback, comments or questions regarding the EPR or Transit and Rail Project Assessment Process.

The WELRT remains one of the City’s top transit priorities. The team will continue to keep you informed as the project advances and we look forward to continued engagement.

Regards,

The Waterfront Transit Team

 

[DSC]

Well, thank god it's "one of the City's top transit priorities". I was worried we would not see it built before I celebrate the 20th anniversary of attending my first meeting about it - probably 2005 or 2006!

 

[drum118]

Well, thank god it's "one of the City's top transit priorities". I was worried we would not see it built before I celebrate the 20th anniversary of attending my first meeting about it - probably 2005 or 2006!

I already past that 20 year mark

 

[DopeyFish]

and i'm sitting here opening up this thread every time there's a new post foolishly thinking there will be an update on the west side

rip