Waterfront Transit Reset Phase 1 Study

[drum118]

@drum118 where can one find this Waterfront Toronto info?

Your best place is Google as I have no idea where my stuff is for the 2008/10 EA is at this time as well look at Waterfront site. A lot of info is not on line done by the City.

I have share what I can in the past, but some stuff not for the public at this time.
<https://waterfrontoronto.ca/nbe/por...me/projects/queens+quay+east/queens+quay+east>
<https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2009/ex/bgrd/2009-06-02-ex33-item18.htm>

 

[DSC]

@drum118 where can one find this Waterfront Toronto info?

There are MANY City reports on the City website. Go to TMMIS and search Council documents for the last decade or more. You could also look at Steve Munro's site - he discusses waterfront transit quite often and usually links to important reports.

 

[Jeff Morgan]

Some of the prep materials for the community consultation are up on their site now.

https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/933e-Waterfront-East-Light-Rail-Transit-Extension-Discussion-Guide-Final-AODA.pdf

 

[nfitz]

Looking at the materials, interesting to see that they are protecting a future streetcar line on Bremner. I thought that was missing on the last version - though I'm starting to lose track of all these iterations.

Good to see more exits as well - though will we ever see an exit to the SE corner of Bay and Front?

 

[nfitz]

I don't recall seeing a detailed figure of the changes at Queens Quay station before. Are we finally going to see the end of pedestrians walking over the tracks? I'm not quite sure what it's showing at the south end of the two platforms. But the addition of a tunnel under the station, and elevators on both sides, suggests so.

Also, with the extension of Queens Quay station further north, and the Union terminus further south -at what point does it start making sense, just to connect the two with a pedestrian walkway along the east side of the tracks?

 

[Northern Light]

I don't recall seeing a detailed figure of the changes at Queens Quay station before. Are we finally going to see the end of pedestrians walking over the tracks? I'm not quite sure what it's showing at the east end of the two platforms. But the addition of a tunnel under the station, and elevators on both sides, suggests so.

Also, with the extension of Queens Quay station further north, and the Union terminus further south -at what point does it start making sense, just to connect the two with a pedestrian walkway along the east side of the tracks?

View attachment 298018

Are we finally going to see the end of pedestrians walking over the tracks?

Passenger circulation is in light blue, there is no light blue across the tracks.

What is shown is stairs leading down to a pedestrian tunnel under the tracks.

So, I agree there will no passenger crossing of the ROW permitted.

****

Also just to clear up confusion, the platforms are oriented N-S. So there is no east end to the platforms.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Why was it mined? unlike the rest of the stations.

Looking at the materials, interesting to see that they are protecting a future streetcar line on Bremner. I thought that was missing on the last version - though I'm starting to lose track of all these iterations.

Good to see more exits as well - though will we ever see an exit to the SE corner of Bay and Front?

View attachment 298017

The "Bremner" Line Connection is just rough-in, setting aside space, just in case sometime in the 22nd century they decide to add a new line.

 

[afransen]

Some of the prep materials for the community consultation are up on their site now.

https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/933e-Waterfront-East-Light-Rail-Transit-Extension-Discussion-Guide-Final-AODA.pdf

Other videos are up on the youtube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCch85CnI_WEYnicVpC22E0A/videos

 

[CapitalSeven]

Looking at the materials, interesting to see that they are protecting a future streetcar line on Bremner. I thought that was missing on the last version - though I'm starting to lose track of all these iterations.

Here's an iteration I archived 12 years ago. The iterative progress here is gawbsmacking.

 

[drum118]

Looking at all the videos, I see no changes from what I saw and reported in Dec, other than material cut that would offer more info to the public. Someone needs to turn up the volume for TTC presentation as the person was speaking to low like they did in Dec.

I hope we have more info pertaining to 2B by the meeting as well later on this year, as it prevents how to determine how phasing should take place as well cost and where is the funding for it coming from.

I prefer to see ramps for the Dock Station to/from all levels and will remove the need for elevators. and easy to be place in 11 Bay while it being built. This also applies at Union loop area as well..

Best to build all platforms now including track work with the exception of no trackwork for Bremner since it so far out and there is no need for it at all. The Bremner Line has never been carry forward and some thing TTC is pushing regardless of no need for it.

If we can get the funding into 2022 budget for 100% design work and construction, a tender could be issue late 2022 or early 2023 for the east-west line with it up and running by 2027. This is based on going to Parliament Loop at this time until I know more about 2B funding and time frame as well if it going to Cherry St Loop or Portland.

As for the loop, tunnel and stations, TTC can spread the time frame out since this is where the bulk of the cost is for the extension as well what unknown maybe found during the excavation like what was found the new concourse.

 

[max]

Here's an iteration I archived 12 years ago. The iterative progress here is gawbsmacking.

View attachment 298106

Pillars in this image seem to be completely absent from the Existing Platform level image in the prep materials, I wonder if they've actually disappeared in 12 years or if the there's an inaccuracy in one of the documents.

 

[nfitz]

Passenger circulation is in light blue, there is no light blue across the tracks.

What is shown is stairs leading down to a pedestrian tunnel under the tracks.

So, I agree there will no passenger crossing of the ROW permitted.

But isn't there a pedestrian crossing now - or have they gotten rid of it in the last year? It doesn't show blue across at the south(!) end of the current station.

But yeah, seems there won't be in the future?

The "Bremner" Line Connection is just rough-in, setting aside space, just in case sometime in the 22nd century they decide to add a new line.

Indeed. But for some reason, I thought it had vanished in the previous iteration. Maybe this is just more detailed.

 

[turini2]

Glad to see they're pushing forward with the idea of building the cheap(er) and faster bit first - Queens Quay East and then embarking on the long reconstruction of Queens Quay + Union stations. Hopefully money is found/there's the will to connect to Cherry St as part of Phase 1.

Once the expensive portal is done, it improves the financial business case for further extensions to the Portlands/Broadview/East Harbour/Leslie Barns! If a comprehensive TPAP is done, I wonder if the TTC/City could fund x metres of new streetcar trackage a year and get the network built!

(Also, I wonder if the sidewalks from Union to the Waterfront could be heated/weather protected to make the walk from Union south a little easier during construction)

 

[TRONto]

Glad to see they're pushing forward with the idea of building the cheap(er) and faster bit first - Queens Quay East and then embarking on the long reconstruction of Queens Quay + Union stations. Hopefully money is found/there's the will to connect to Cherry St as part of Phase 1.

Once the expensive portal is done, it improves the financial business case for further extensions to the Portlands/Broadview/East Harbour/Leslie Barns! If a comprehensive TPAP is done, I wonder if the TTC/City could fund x metres of new streetcar trackage a year and get the network built!

(Also, I wonder if the sidewalks from Union to the Waterfront could be heated/weather protected to make the walk from Union south a little easier during construction)

Now that this is a city project, I would hope in a future phase that the streetcar would go all the way to Woodbine/Queen. It would remove some riders from the Queen streetcar that come from east of Woodbine that need to go to Southcore. Also, the beaches traffic is horrendous. If this route went up to Woodbine/Queen as was originally proposed it would help alleviate traffic on Queen east of Woodbine.

 

[nfitz]

Now that this is a city project, I would hope in a future phase that the streetcar would go all the way to Woodbine/Queen. It would remove some riders from the Queen streetcar that come from east of Woodbine that need to go to Southcore. Also, the beaches traffic is horrendous. If this route went up to Woodbine/Queen as was originally proposed it would help alleviate traffic on Queen east of Woodbine.

Waterfront east of Bay was always a city project (with Waterfront Toronto, who are still involved).

Much of the excess traffic on Queen, east of Woodbine, are travellers from far away in Scarborough, cutting through on streets like Victoria Park. Queens Quay East doesn't fix that. The solution there is putting in restrictions that cuts down on those in Scarborough getting down to Queen East, east of Woodbine.

Queen East doesn't really go anywhere major past Woodbine. There's no reason for it being more congested than Gerrard!

(not that I oppose extending it east of Leslie. I'd love to see it continue along the Commissioners alignment, between Leslie Barns and the treatment plan, and then north to Lakeshore Blvd, and east along Lakeshore up to Woodbine. Connecting track on Coxwell wouldn't hurt either.)