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Waterfront Transit Reset Phase 1 Study

How should Toronto connect the East and West arms of the planned waterfront transit with downtown?

  • Expand the existing Union loop

    Votes: 205 71.2%

  • Build a Western terminus

    Votes: 13 4.5%

  • Route service along Queen's Quay with pedestrian/cycle/bus connection to Union

    Votes: 31 10.8%

  • Connect using existing Queen's Quay/Union Loop and via King Street

    Votes: 22 7.6%

  • Other

    Votes: 17 5.9%
  • Total voters
    288
drum118 said:
The current plan calls for a full east-west line before work takes place on the tunnel and Loop. Since Bay St is up for rebuilt, it may become part of the rebuilt project and would love to see traffic remove 100% south of Queen.



Still talking 2031 for this extension with no clear info when the east-west line could be in service as well the loop. Once the east-west line is up and running, real work on the Bay tunnel and loop, be expect some will start when the line is close to connect the east to the west line.
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2031 for full completion. But if Loop and Bay work are a separate project, then theoretically we could see this east-west line well before that. That actually sounds pretty good.
 
44 North said:
2031 for full completion. But if Loop and Bay work are a separate project, then theoretically we could see this east-west line well before that. That actually sounds pretty good.
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I was sure it was full, but knowing things with the city, I take it with salt. As I stated before, we could see the e-w line in service by 2027 depending how fast the designs are 100% complete for tender, tender stage and funding. It only took 2 years to do the west, but we have 3 portals to do, infill 3 locations. If things went to tender late 2022, we could see construction in 2023. Using 3 to 3.5 years for construction bring us into 2027. Even 2028 will not be a big deal. This gives TTC a lot of room to deal with the loop and tunnel.

To build the line to Polson Loop, you are only looking at the ROW and the Loop, assuming we can get the south Cherry bridge being added to the cost and only taking a year to do at worse.

TTC then has a number of option for service after full completion as well before then not using Union.
1: Polson to Exhibition 509
2: An loop route by QQ to Bathurst to King To Cherry
3: Polson to Dundas West
4: Queen E by Cheery St to QQ and Union
5: Broadview Station to Union
6: Polson to Union
7: Spadina Station to Polson

Ridership will be very weak for Polson outside of summer months until development starts and when people start moving in. Will get more once on QQ where development exist today and by opening day
 
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drum118 said:
Access to the new bus terminal now to/from the loop.
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Is this referring to the Metrolinx bus terminal inside CIBC Square? Is that going to be through the knockout panels in the 81 Bay parking garage?

If so, this sounds like a pretty major design change -- seems like they'd have to extend the east-side platform substantially in order to get pedestrians that far south.
 
polesingularity said:
Is this referring to the Metrolinx bus terminal inside CIBC Square? Is that going to be through the knockout panels in the 81 Bay parking garage?

If so, this sounds like a pretty major design change -- seems like they'd have to extend the east-side platform substantially in order to get pedestrians that far south.
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Screenshot 2021-06-16 at 16.56.28.png

Not as far as you think - looks to be easily achievable.
 
polesingularity said:
Is this referring to the Metrolinx bus terminal inside CIBC Square? Is that going to be through the knockout panels in the 81 Bay parking garage?

If so, this sounds like a pretty major design change -- seems like they'd have to extend the east-side platform substantially in order to get pedestrians that far south.
Click to expand...
Yes and there is to be a knockout panel in 141 as well. Most likely will not require the knockout panel as that can be done during the rebuilding of the loop.

You are talking a platform of 350' long south of the loop with double crossover between 2 cars
 
This is the time to voice any concerns you may have with the project or any changes you want to see. Put all your likes and dislikes and any changes in writing also so its on file/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This is a reminder about our Virtual Community Consultation taking place this coming Monday, June 21, 2021 from 7 p.m. to 9 p.m. We have extended the meeting time by 30 minutes to allow for a more substantial question and answer period. Learn more about ongoing work for the Waterfront East Light Rail Transit (LRT) Extension and help plan the future of Toronto’s waterfront community.

This engagement will cover:
  • Initial design work for the extension of Queens Quay from Parliament Street to the Distillery Loop, including options for getting under the rail corridor
  • Design updates for the surface section on the LRT and Queens Quay East streetscape, including an update on the Yonge Street Slip
  • Progress update on the design of the underground section of the LRT from Union Loop to the proposed portal locations on Queens Quay East, and a new design concept plan for Bay Street following completion of underground works
  • An update on project phasing and implementation
  • An overview of the upcoming Transit Project Assessment Process (TPAP) for the project
  • An update and a summary of feedback from the February consultations.
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Stay Informed: Consultation materials will be made available through the project website. A recording of the meeting will be posted on the website following the meeting.
Get Involved: Ask questions and provide your comments at the June 21 virtual Community Consultation. A brief overview presentation will be made followed by a one-hour question and comment period with project staff.

Provide Feedback: A brief online survey will be posted following the public meeting and will be open from June 21 – July 6, 2021.
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Virtual Community Consultation Details:​

If you would like to attend, please register.
Join the meeting through Zoom on:
Date: Monday, June 21, 2021
Time: 7 p.m. – 9:00 p.m. (Note: meeting time extended)

Or, Join by Phone:
Phone: 1-647-374-4685
Webinar ID: 629 9971 2910
Passcode: 8255128245

If you are unable to attend this meeting, meeting notes and a recording will be shared. Please also feel free to reach out to the project team with any comments or questions you have.

We look forward to meeting with you on June 21.

Regards,
Waterfront Transit Project Team
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Notice to Correspondents
The City respects your privacy – your personal information will not be shared without your permission. The personal information on this form is collected under the authority of the City of Toronto Act, 2006, s. 136(c), and the Municipal Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act. R.S.O. 1990, CHAPTER M.56. Your personal information is being collected to inform you about project updates and future consultation opportunities regarding the Waterfront Transit Reset project. Questions about this collection can be directed to the Public Consultation Unit, Metro Hall – 55 John St., Toronto, Ontario, M5V 3C6, or call 416-392-2990.
 
I had some great laugh as what was being said, present, comment and question about the project as some were going back to 2004-2008 aa well last week.

A fair number of slides were missing from last week presentation.

Great timeline for Commissioner St and Leslie Barns.

Before I comment more, want to heard what others have to say about tonight meeting.
 
 
W. K. Lis said:
Either the city hates the green colour of grass, or they assume the grass they will be using will turn brown from the summer heat. Mostly, it seems they are using Toronto “grey” for the right-of-way.
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As has been said before the city's hands are tied when it comes to streetcar rights of way and them having to be accessable to emergency vehicles. I don't see grass every being used unless it is completely separate like the Eglinton crosstown line is.
 
Option 4 looks pretty good to me - although you do lose a larger amount of public realm given they'd be a streetcar line running through it.

Will be interesting to see which loop option they end up going for - and whether or not a "temporary" loop will be built. It would be a disaster to lose streetcar service along the waterfront while Union gets rebuilt because there's nowhere to turn around in the east!
I wonder if there's been discussions with landowners regarding a temporary terminus (such as on the Quayside lands) while Union is rebuilt, given the cost of building Union + Queens Quay East + Distillery tunnel + Portlands all at the same time might be a little too expensive!

(EDIT - turns out the presentation is a lot less explicit than the survey is!)
The project team is currently proposing that the first phase of implementation includes a streetcar route that travels from Union Station, south underground to Queens Quay-Ferry Docks. It then emerges west of Yonge Street and travels along Queens Quay East until Cherry Street where it turns south to Villiers Island to a new loop at Polson Pier.

The Polson Loop was selected given that its design and construction advances the network goals further than if it were to be located at Parliament Loop. It also presents fewer design and construction risks than the Distillery Loop, and is less reliant on other infrastructure investments that are unfunded or need further study to reach East Harbour. The Polson Loop option would deliver transit to the Port Lands, in advance of significant development, in alignment with City policy
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Something great I think from the presentation is that the level crossing in the middle of Queens Quay is apparently only going to be open during low traffic times. This does alleviate some of my concerns for the line since the existing level crossing causes a lot of weird movement from the streetcar, and anything that smooths out and streamlines the travel experience is absolutely a good thing. Apparently the crossing is mostly there to provide operational redundancy for stuff, and those in wheelchairs that need to cross can be accompanies by staff if the need arises.
 
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