Waterfront Transit Reset Phase 1 Study

[Streety McCarface]

I supported the road tolls, but this fallacy that some still believe...that somehow it would have funded some of our big-ticket transit projects is out of touch with reality. A reminder: the tolls were planned to kick in only after 2024. The actual projected revenue (after expenses) was around $200 million annually, which would have first went toward paying for the Gardner repairs. Not until we are well into the 2030s would these tolls have funded transit in a major way. It's time to stop kidding ourselves here and acknowledge that these tolls alone fall drastically short of fulfilling our enormous funding needs for transit. The mayor has spent his entire term in office begging for more money from Queens Park, with almost nothing to show for it. Therefore it's time that he and council start looking at other revenue tools that are available to us, and stop with their annual politically-driven point of keeping property taxes below inflation.

$200 million dollars annually paying for the Gardiner repairs instead of taxpayers money paying for the Gardiner repairs seems to make available revenue for transit that wouldn't have been available otherwise.

 

[Kyle Campbell]

I have open house handouts on this project from 1992. Pretty soon Antiques Roadshow will want them.

I'm curious how things would be if amalgamation hadn't happened. I think this is kind of an across the board problem in all merged cities in Ontario. In the old regional style of government, the politics still happened at the city level, but big projects always happened at the regional level, which I feel had less political gridlock versus now when you have directly elected councillors with constituencies that have very different goals.

 

[robmausser]

I'm still miffed this routing isn't going to happen.

Instead we are getting this:

yey......

 

[drum118]

I'm still miffed this routing isn't going to happen.

Instead we are getting this:


yey......

It fail on many account starting with Fort York its self.

The developer of City Place saw no need for it as very few people would use it in the first place and that has been proven correct based on TTC numbers for the 121.

It would be an operation nightmare in the tunnel, that all service would be screw with this line. TTC was planning on having a Bathurst 519 use the line to/from Union.

Now if TTC ran a Tram Train into Union Station itself, may work if Metrolinx allow it.

Not much different by following the 509 route, other than a few extra minute travel time.

 

[ADRM]

I'd certainly take a new public space and a new streetcar ROW over just one of them.

 

[Tuscani01]

It fail on many account starting with Fort York its self.

The developer of City Place saw no need for it as very few people would use it in the first place and that has been proven correct based on TTC numbers for the 121.

.

In fairness, the 121 isn't reliable during the hours when people actually need to use transit. It's either caught in bumper to bumper traffic, or doesn't show up at all due to problems along the route. I also don't think I have ever seen the developer or CityPlace being against the line.

 

[drum118]

In fairness, the 121 isn't reliable during the hours when people actually need to use transit. It's either caught in bumper to bumper traffic, or doesn't show up at all due to problems along the route. I also don't think I have ever seen the developer or CityPlace being against the line.

I talked to the developer at the beginning of an EA about this line and was told people would walk to the core using the walkway, catch the Spadina, Bathurst streetcar or the 509 to get to/from than a line along Bremmer. They weren't happy having to build a road with an ROW where the extra land could be used for something else.

Where the portal was to go to get under the ACC, is dead to the point it would have to be west of York now, not the east side.

Even though 121 is a piss poor route like the 72, headway really sucks for both of them, but 121 would still will have poor number even with better all around improvement.

 

[DSC]

Even though 121 is a piss poor route like the 72, headway really sucks for both of them, but 121 would still will have poor number even with better all around improvement.

The 121 does have problems. First, it gets stuck on Front from Simcoe to Yonge - especially eastbound - and secondly there are no stops in front of Union Station. The TTC says that its too congested to stop, though this seems silly to me, buses are already stopped but the doors are not open!
The City are doing a major traffic study around Union that may improve both of these problems. I'm not holding my breath but the 121 may improve.

 

[salsa]

The Waterfront transit plan carried 35-2 at council today. Including an amendment by councillor Holyday to consider impacts to motor vehicle travel time when planning the Waterfront transit right-of-way, which passed 21-15. Holyday also wanted to keep the pedestrian walkway on the table as an option for the link between Queens Quay and Union Station, which failed on an 18-18 tie.

 

[44 North]

Since TTR claims to own the rights above and below USRC, and we may've upset them to some degree with the ORCA thing, could they roadblock Union Loop expansion? Perhaps they're not willing to play ball with the City on giving up their supposed subsurface land rights. And this goes for things like future Church/Cooper extension, and Cherry widening for streetcar service.

 

[pstogios]

The Waterfront transit plan carried 35-2 at council today.

And?
So now it goes back on the pile of papers with lines on a map to gather dust for 20 more years?
I have no faith at all left in the city council to get anything done on this file.

 

[Amare]

Holyday also wanted to keep the pedestrian walkway on the table as an option for the link between Queens Quay and Union Station, which failed on an 18-18 tie.

Holyday truly delusional. It astounds me that his father was very knowledgeable in general about various files in the city, but this man is just a complete 180 from him. The other 18 who voted for in favor are also delusional.

And?
So now it goes back on the pile of papers with lines on a map to gather dust for 20 more years?
I have no faith at all left in the city council to get anything done on this file.

After which point, in 20 years they will commence the "Waterfront Transit Reset 2" study which will be a rinse and repeat of the 1st study.

 

[DSC]

Since TTR claims to own the rights above and below USRC, and we may've upset them to some degree with the ORCA thing, could they roadblock Union Loop expansion? Perhaps they're not willing to play ball with the City on giving up their supposed subsurface land rights. And this goes for things like future Church/Cooper extension, and Cherry widening for streetcar service.

If I read it right, the TTR does not own anything ; it self-describes itself as "Toronto Terminals Railway Co. Ltd. is the operating railway responsible for safe, effective and efficient movement of passenger & freight trains throughout the Union Station Railway Corridor (USRC)." and "TTR is a jointly owned subsidiary of both Canadian National Railway (CN) and Canadian Pacific Railway (CP), " If anyone owns the rights above and below the tracks it is CP and CN. (See: http://ttrly.com/ )

 

[ADRM]

The Waterfront transit plan carried 35-2 at council today. Including an amendment by councillor Holyday to consider impacts to motor vehicle travel time when planning the Waterfront transit right-of-way, which passed 21-15. Holyday also wanted to keep the pedestrian walkway on the table as an option for the link between Queens Quay and Union Station, which failed on an 18-18 tie.

Holyday also successfully motioned to spend city resources on baking in consideration of impacts of motor vehicle time when planning the ROW, which of course passed with support from our auto-obsessed mayor.

 

[ADRM]

Holyday truly delusional. It astounds me that his father was very knowledgeable in general about various files in the city, but this man is just a complete 180 from him.

Fun mems of Holyday voting against reaffirming Toronto's sanctuary city status and then admitting he did so because he didn't know what it meant.