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Waterfront Transit Reset Phase 1 Study

How should Toronto connect the East and West arms of the planned waterfront transit with downtown?

  • Expand the existing Union loop

    Votes: 203 72.5%

  • Build a Western terminus

    Votes: 11 3.9%

  • Route service along Queen's Quay with pedestrian/cycle/bus connection to Union

    Votes: 30 10.7%

  • Connect using existing Queen's Quay/Union Loop and via King Street

    Votes: 20 7.1%

  • Other

    Votes: 16 5.7%
  • Total voters
    280
Interesting report. On page 20 they talk about having the vendor study ferry service as a supplement/compliment to commuting. This was ruled out in 2008, but may now be viable because "appreciable changes in technology, economic, and operating conditions may have taken place, as well as a significant increase in population and employment along the waterfront".
 
44 North said:
Interesting report. On page 20 they talk about having the vendor study ferry service as a supplement/compliment to commuting. This was ruled out in 2008, but may now be viable because "appreciable changes in technology, economic, and operating conditions may have taken place, as well as a significant increase in population and employment along the waterfront".
Click to expand...

That is interesting. Ferries are certainly popular elsewhere, so one can't discount them, but whether they would work in Toronto is anyone's guess. I'm not sure what new technology has arrived on the scene since 2008. Toronto's winter freezup is a bit harsher than what New York, Halifax, or Vancouver have to contend with.

Certainly, 15 minute ferry service from Humber Bay to Downtown would be an interesting alternative to the subway or 501. But then, one can kayak faster than the 501 some days ;-)

Vancouver's Seabus carries 16,000 people per day - not enough for the Waterfront - and it isn't all good news

http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/2016/03/17/seabus-ridership-plummets-after-zone-changes

- Paul
 
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Much as I would like a ferry route, the 2008 TTC Report linked to above seems to still be valid. Among other things, they note:

* The total travel time of a typical ferry trip would be much longer than the equivalent GO Rail trip and approximately the same as the time for the equivalent TTC trip.
• A ferry service would be subject to significant reliability issues related to non-summer weather conditions;
• Implementing one ferry route would require an initial investment of almost $20 million and approximately $6.5 million in annual operating costs. If two routes were to be implemented, these costs would double;
• GO Transit currently provides a faster, more-reliable commuter service along the Lakeshore corridor, with a fare of approximately $3.50 per passenger, so it is unlikely that people would pay a significant fare premium for ferry service;
 
crs1026 said:
That is interesting. Ferries are certainly popular elsewhere, so one can't discount them, but whether they would work in Toronto is anyone's guess. I'm not sure what new technology has arrived on the scene since 2008. Toronto's winter freezup is a bit harsher than what New York, Halifax, or Vancouver have to contend with.

Certainly, 15 minute ferry service from Humber Bay to Downtown would be an interesting alternative to the subway or 501. But then, one can kayak faster than the 501 some days ;-)

Vancouver's Seabus carries 16,000 people per day - not enough for the Waterfront - and it isn't all good news

http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/2016/03/17/seabus-ridership-plummets-after-zone-changes

- Paul
Click to expand...

Yea the "changes in technology" point doesn't make much sense to me, unless it's about general fuel efficiency of more modern engines/turbochargers? Can't think of any innovative advancements in water travel since hydrofoil or hovercraft.

Personally I can't see this being a worthwhile pursuit for intra-Toronto travel, with the exception of maybe very localized transport within the Inner Harbour (e.g Port Lands, Centre Is, Bay St, Billy Bishop). However for longer haul travel I'd imagine there's some degree of commuter benefit for services operating between Downtown TO and St Catharines, Hamilton, Oshawa. Would probably be a small market, but could be operated by GO/Metrolinx.
 
From WT's latest newsletter:

A Phase 1 study was completed in 2016 and a Phase 2 study is now underway. The study is anticipated to conclude in 2017 with a recommended waterfront transit network solution.

In Phase 2, we will complete a travel demand analysis, functional transit design, undertake a comparative evaluation of alignments, and in coordination and consultation with stakeholders, identify a preferred waterfront transit network solution. A phasing plan and Business Case will be prepared that will take into consideration the potential strategic, economic, financial, deliverability and operational impacts of the proposed solution.

The next round of public consultations is planned for spring 2017 and will include online engagement opportunities.

The City of Toronto and Waterfront Toronto have created a community liaison office for the Waterfront Transit Reset Phase 2 Study. The community liaison office is managed by Lura Consulting, a third party neutral facilitator. The community liaison office will keep a record of all correspondence and produce a report as part of the Phase 2 consultant report. General
public queries can be directed to:

Niki Angelis, Community Liaison Officer
416-410-3888 ext. 714
nangelis@lura.ca
 
Tuscani01 said:
The question was answered a few posts above by @ADRM:

"A Phase 1 study was completed in 2016 and a Phase 2 study is now underway. The study is anticipated to conclude in 2017 with a recommended waterfront transit network solution. "
Click to expand...

...and a possible construction start date of 2050.

The lack of urgency on this line, as judged by the lackadaisical schedule of these studies, is so far down anyone's radar it's laughable.
 
First of all, the Final report goes to the executive committee September 26, with a public meeting most likely in June.

As it stands, Metrolinx is not willing to build a GO station at Park Lawn since there is not enough new riders for it; too close to Mimico and haven't look a different type of service for the 2 station; Very costly due to environmental issues for the area as well the Gardiner. Dumb, dumb thinking on Metrolinx part.

TTC is starting to do the 30% design work for the extension from the EX loop to Dufferin loop and may have it built within 5 years depending on funding it. This would allow a Sunnyside to Union route.

2041 time frame is being use for the study to the point reverse rider flow is higher than the peak load.

Queens Quay E is #1 route at this time and was to be built years ago since it is already approve.
 
drum118 said:
As it stands, Metrolinx is not willing to build a GO station at Park Lawn since there is not enough new riders for it; too close to Mimico and haven't look a different type of service for the 2 station; Very costly due to environmental issues for the area as well the Gardiner. Dumb, dumb thinking on Metrolinx part.
Click to expand...

Metrolinx has better things to do. Like approving a GO station in the transport minister's own riding despite its weak business case. Too bad we don't have minister from the Park Lawn area.

https://www.thestar.com/business/20...tion-that-will-put-more-cars-on-the-road.html
 
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