Waterfront Transit Reset Phase 1 Study

[allengeorge]

With the municipal elections over - feel that the accumulated Eglinton East LRT surtax should be redirected to build Waterfront East LRT.

I agree. In the current situation neither project is getting built. It would be better to acknowledge reality: get the Waterfront LRT built and actually accelerate BRT in all its forms in East Scarborough.

I suspect we’ll get the status quo, because Tory is reluctant to make big changes and…no Councillor wants to face voters as the person who killed a transit project in Scarborough:

 

[DSC]

There is supposed to be a public update session on QQE LRT 'this fall'. I assume that now the Council elections are over, it will be scheduled. Detailed planning is certainly continuing - though we all know that 'planning' is not 'building'!!

 

[DSC]

WT just sent me this update - which does not say much!

... the project team has continued advancing the design of the project following the update to City Council. The following is a summary of the key updates since then:


• Area 1 (Bay Street): Optimization of the Union Station and the Queens Quay/Bay Station design, with associated costs pending.

• Area 2A (Queens Quay East focus area): Finalizing the design and segment costs.

• Area 2B (Queens Quay East extension, Cherry Street to Distillery Loop focus area): Coordination of the LRT project with the Gardiner-Lake Shore Redesign team and Metrolinx project teams.

• Villiers Island: Determining the preferred LRT turnaround loop location and completing the design and cost.


Following the stakeholder and general public consultation updates, staff will be reporting to City Council (mid-2023), and this will be followed by the official Notice of Commencement for the Environmental Project Report review process.

 

[drum118]

WT just sent me this update - which does not say much!

... the project team has continued advancing the design of the project following the update to City Council. The following is a summary of the key updates since then:


• Area 1 (Bay Street): Optimization of the Union Station and the Queens Quay/Bay Station design, with associated costs pending.

• Area 2A (Queens Quay East focus area): Finalizing the design and segment costs.

• Area 2B (Queens Quay East extension, Cherry Street to Distillery Loop focus area): Coordination of the LRT project with the Gardiner-Lake Shore Redesign team and Metrolinx project teams.

• Villiers Island: Determining the preferred LRT turnaround loop location and completing the design and cost.


Following the stakeholder and general public consultation updates, staff will be reporting to City Council (mid-2023), and this will be followed by the official Notice of Commencement for the Environmental Project Report review process.

Got my notice and it trying to say we are working on it from my point of view. Basely its TTC and the City delaying this project by pushing it down the road due to lack of funds. WT wanted the line built a decade ago.

 

[Northern Light]

WT just sent me this update - which does not say much!

... the project team has continued advancing the design of the project following the update to City Council. The following is a summary of the key updates since then:


• Area 1 (Bay Street): Optimization of the Union Station and the Queens Quay/Bay Station design, with associated costs pending.

• Area 2A (Queens Quay East focus area): Finalizing the design and segment costs.

• Area 2B (Queens Quay East extension, Cherry Street to Distillery Loop focus area): Coordination of the LRT project with the Gardiner-Lake Shore Redesign team and Metrolinx project teams.

• Villiers Island: Determining the preferred LRT turnaround loop location and completing the design and cost.


Following the stakeholder and general public consultation updates, staff will be reporting to City Council (mid-2023), and this will be followed by the official Notice of Commencement for the Environmental Project Report review process.

I want to be careful what I say here; but I will offer this, I told another UT member, who can name himself if he wishes, that some of those working on the design expected a spring/summer '22 funding commitment.

It wasn't wild optimism, there were indications of a pending announcement. For reasons I and they, fail to understand, it didn't materialize. It is worth noting, the design money keeps flowing. So there is work being done; just a bit less than expected, a bit slower than hoped.

But you know, its like those of us who have had a very good track record w/Mx in the past, anticipating major announcements/service changes etc. ........... As was expected last spring/summer, and then seeing them never materialize. Its not a matter of wishful thinking, one could see the machinery working towards a particular outcome.........then when the key turns.......no ignition.

Very peculiar.

I wonder if the overages on Crosstown et. al are having any effect (entirely curious question, not one based on inside info)

 

[allengeorge]

I want to be careful what I say here; but I will offer this, I told another UT member, who can name himself if he wishes, that some of those working on the design expected a spring/summer '22 funding commitment

That’s really sad to hear. It would be nice to see this community start transit-first. This update makes me far less hopeful

 

[Amare]

If this Waterfront East project is moving so damn slow, just imagine how long it's going to take for the Waterfront West LRT to get built (if ever).

This is just laughably pathetic at this point. The Ontario Line (a project far more complicated) is moving ahead far more quickly then this, not even talking about the Eglinton Crosstown West extension. The city isnt serious about this project, because if they were we'd see movement at a far quicker pace then this foot dragging design non-sense exercise they've been undertaking for the past X number of years at this point. I bet you the next thing we'll hear of is that this project will have to be redesigned on the far eastern end of the line because of some "unforeseen circumstances" with the hybrid Gardiner Expressway project, and as a result will be delayed even further.

 

[DSC]

If this Waterfront East project is moving so damn slow, just imagine how long it's going to take for the Waterfront West LRT to get built (if ever).

This is just laughably pathetic at this point. The Ontario Line (a project far more complicated) is moving ahead far more quickly then this, not even talking about the Eglinton Crosstown West extension. The city isnt serious about this project, because if they were we'd see movement at a far quicker pace then this foot dragging design non-sense exercise they've been undertaking for the past X number of years at this point. I bet you the next thing we'll hear of is that this project will have to be redesigned on the far eastern end of the line because of some "unforeseen circumstances" with the hybrid Gardiner Expressway project, and as a result will be delayed even further.

I think the problem with QQE has always been that it's everyone's SECOND priority and I agree that all the talk (in 2010) of "Transit First" from WT when they were planning the area east of Jarvis was just so much hot air.

 

[drum118]

If this Waterfront East project is moving so damn slow, just imagine how long it's going to take for the Waterfront West LRT to get built (if ever).

This is just laughably pathetic at this point. The Ontario Line (a project far more complicated) is moving ahead far more quickly then this, not even talking about the Eglinton Crosstown West extension. The city isnt serious about this project, because if they were we'd see movement at a far quicker pace then this foot dragging design non-sense exercise they've been undertaking for the past X number of years at this point. I bet you the next thing we'll hear of is that this project will have to be redesigned on the far eastern end of the line because of some "unforeseen circumstances" with the hybrid Gardiner Expressway project, and as a result will be delayed even further.

The big different between the 2 lines is who calling the shots with Ford leading the way for the OL. Who is leading the QQE extension???

The big issue for QQE is Union Station Loop. It been known as far back in 2004 and before then that Union was a major issues as well a costly one with many unknowns in expanding it.

Some will say WT promoting "TRANSIT FIRST" was an PR job, but knowing various WT personnel, it was no PR. Some blame can go to WT board who switch things around based on money needs to the point there was less money available for transit. The developers of the lands have had their hands in this mess as some wanted to see development sooner that required the new QQE Road with others having no timeline for development or what it may look like.

I have stated in the past and will content to that getting the east-west line up and running can be done sooner than later, leaving Union Loop to an unknow date. Since the east side of the loop is now clear of unknown and ready for building thanks to CIBC towers. This leaves the rest of the loop and tunnels to deal with unknowns and the huge extra cost that is the bulk to do it the whole project that will be on TTC and the City dime.

We already know that the extension to Cheery St Loop is block by ML OL project at this time, leaving the extension to Commissioner St as the best option now. It also allow transit to the Portland area sooner than plan for. To build the the Cherry Loop to the new QQE is a 2 year project.

WT has wanted the Gardiner gone, but the 30,000 cars folks and their councilors want to keep it at huge yearly cost to maintain it to save 5 minutes of travel time, let along the cost to rebuilt it that would have seen more green space and developments.

You can add the Westin owners to this issue as they wanted the current entrance move to the Yonge Slip that reduced the cost of the tunnel section with no known cost what it will cost to fill in the slip. I have no issues with it and a better option.

The e-w line can be up and running by 2027 if everyone gets their head out of their ass along with a new road that been on the books since 2004-2008.

 

[drum118]

Later this afternoon, on January 25, 2023, the Waterfront Design Review Panel (DRP) will review the schematic design for the LRT extension on Commissioners Street to a preferred turnaround loop location on Villiers Island. The purpose of the DRP review at this stage is to evaluate the schematic design for this portion of the project and give the design team feedback on how the LRT is integrated with the public realm.

To improve transit service to the planned mixed-use community and future parks on Villiers Island, the turnaround loop location was reprioritized from Polson Loop to Villiers Island. Several alignment options were considered for the Villiers Island loop, including on-street and off-street alignments. Two preferred options were identified and were assessed based on review of preliminary functional design drawings and street cross-sections. They were also evaluated on technical and operational, and development coordination and project delivery implications of each option. The on-street loop alignment was selected as the preferred option to proceed with preliminary design.

The presentation materials from the DRP meeting and a video recording of the presentation will be available online shortly after the meeting. For renderings and more information about the preferred loop alignment that will be presented to the DRP, the proposed options and evaluation process, please see this blog.

 

[Northern Light]

From the link posted by @drum118 above:

 

[ARG1]

From the link posted by @drum118 above:

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Here's a brilliant idea: cancel the Eglinton East LRT, and build the whole line all the way to Leslie Barns. Why the insistence on building this out piecemeal is beyond me.

 

[drum118]

Here's a brilliant idea: cancel the Eglinton East LRT, and build the whole line all the way to Leslie Barns. Why the insistence on building this out piecemeal is beyond me.

Because nothing there to support that idea as well no bridge to carry the line over the new mouth of the don at this time or in 20 year so say CityofTO. That bridge is very expensive both for building it, but most of all doing the foundation and erecting it. Don't know why they never built the foundation in the first place, other than cost as well sitting there 20-30 years or more before a bridge is place on it.

The prefer option is the best option, as it allows for short turning for the e-w line well leaving the Polson loop for Cherry St service or until when the south Cherry St bridge is built and install.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Because nothing there to support that idea as well no bridge to carry the line over the new mouth of the don at this time or in 20 year so say CityofTO. That bridge is very expensive both for building it, but most of all doing the foundation and erecting it. Don't know why they never built the foundation in the first place, other than cost as well sitting there 20-30 years or more before a bridge is place on it.

The prefer option is the best option, as it allows for short turning for the e-w line well leaving the Polson loop for Cherry St service or until when the south Cherry St bridge is built and install.

The loop should be kept for short turns or detours (like water main breaks) in the future, after the tracks are extended further.

 

[DSC]

The loop should be kept for short turns or detours (like water main breaks) in the future, after the tracks are extended further.

As it is proposed as an on-road loop this would seem to be their intention.