VIVA + York Region Transit

[smallspy]

You say they're "definitely" paying 407 bills, but based on what evidence?

I can't offer material evidence, nor can I offer numbers, unfortunately.

But what I've been told by people within Metrolinx (and prior to that, GO) is that yes, they do pay 407 ETR toll fees. No, I don't know what those fees are.

I do also know that there have been several occasions in the past 20-ish years where GO has considered pulling or severely curtailing those services due to the additional costs of running them versus services on non-tolled routes.

Dan

 

[ShonTron]

I can't offer material evidence, nor can I offer numbers, unfortunately.

But what I've been told by people within Metrolinx (and prior to that, GO) is that yes, they do pay 407 ETR toll fees. No, I don't know what those fees are.

I do also know that there have been several occasions in the past 20-ish years where GO has considered pulling or severely curtailing those services due to the additional costs of running them versus services on non-tolled routes.

Dan

In 2020-2021, a lot of GO buses were rerouted off the 407 with lower ridership and less traffic. I remember Route 29 buses on Winston Churchill Boulevard instead of the 407.

 

[anb]

In 2020-2021, a lot of GO buses were rerouted off the 407 with lower ridership and less traffic. I remember Route 29 buses on Winston Churchill Boulevard instead of the 407.

This led to the buses that travel in between Square One and Bramalea GO to use the 410 and then Steeles instead of 407 to Dixie. This eventually became permanent and think its probably the only temporary “off the 407 whenever efficiency possible during covid” change to do so.

One more option is to extend the Purple from RHC to Pioneer Village station via Hwy 407, during the peak periods only. And, keep the rest of VIVA as is.

That would be similar to Zum 501C branch, that exits Hwy 7 to 427, and then uses the 407 as a shortcut to Jane.

Zum 501A/C should back track to Highway 407 station. This allows multiple benefits especially another connectivity point between Brampton and the entire GTHA region while still technically serving York U under one fare. YRT can then see this and try to also see that Viva Purple can benefit from this connecting to one of their 3 subway stations and that can help the route gain ridership.

 

[Abdullah77]

This led to the buses that travel in between Square One and Bramalea GO to use the 410 and then Steeles instead of 407 to Dixie. This eventually became permanent and think its probably the only temporary “off the 407 whenever efficiency possible during covid” change to do so.



Zum 501A/C should back track to Highway 407 station. This allows multiple benefits especially another connectivity point between Brampton and the entire GTHA region while still technically serving York U under one fare. YRT can then see this and try to also see that Viva Purple can benefit from this connecting to one of their 3 subway stations and that can help the route gain ridership.

Once the TTC-Suburban free transfer is implemented I suspect BT will try to shift the 501C to Highway 407 Station. But this will receive a lot of pushback from students at York University and Seneca@York, and that employment hubwith the bus stop on Keele in between Steeles and the 407.

A direct bus to campus is more convenient than transferring, waiting, and riding 2 stations on the subway.

 

[nfitz]

A direct bus to campus is more convenient than transferring, waiting, and riding 2 stations on the subway.

At the same time, going express from the 427 to the Highway 407 subway station (instead of flying past it to the Keele ramp) would benefit some other customers. Or is there a different Brampton route that runs express to the University branch of the subway?

Also, it's been a while, but I've gotten stuck in some horrific southward traffic on Keele from 407 to Steeles. Going to 407 station, taking the subway to York University, and walking to Steeles/Keele would have been faster!

 

[Rainforest]

Where did you hear that? I did a quick search through the sale agreement but couldn't find anything to that effect. The definition of 'heavy vehicles' under schedule 22 specifically includes transit vehicles.

Looks like I am wrong. I believe I read somewhere that public transit buses are excempt from the Hwy 407 fees, but that "somewhere" wasn't an authoritative source.

 

[smallspy]

Looks like I am wrong. I believe I read somewhere that public transit buses are excempt from the Hwy 407 fees, but that "somewhere" wasn't an authoritative source.

I would be curious to know what "some" is supposed to be. As I wrote earlier, my contacts within GO have told me that they pay fees, and YRT has certainly alluded to the additional costs of operating on the 407 in their previous annual service summary documents.

Dan

 

[reaperexpress]

At the same time, going express from the 427 to the Highway 407 subway station (instead of flying past it to the Keele ramp) would benefit some other customers. Or is there a different Brampton route that runs express to the University branch of the subway?

Also, it's been a while, but I've gotten stuck in some horrific southward traffic on Keele from 407 to Steeles. Going to 407 station, taking the subway to York University, and walking to Steeles/Keele would have been faster!

Brampton's 501C does a one-way looping that doesn't serve Highway 407 station.

GO Transit interestingly doesn't have a direct connection from Hwy 407 station to destinations along Queen Street such as Brampton Station or Bramalea Terminal. From Hwy 407 Station to Brampton's Queen Street (Hwy 7) corridor you'd need to take the 41/47/48/56 to Bramalea station and then connect to a Brampton or GO bus or train up to Queen St.

Brampton's 501C could therefore be an attractive regional bus route along that corridor if it served Hwy 407 station. There is a one-way eastbound busway through the hydro corridor between Hwy 407 station and Pioneer Village station, so if the 501C did serve Hwy 407 station it could get to York University without getting stuck in congestion at the Jane & Steeles or Keele & Steeles intersections. On the way back it would still need to go through Jane & Steeles, but the delays for right turns there are typically not too bad.

 

[johntauren]

501 doesn't serve the 407 station in any direction, despite what the YRT map seems to imply.

 

[ShonTron]

Perhaps the core 501 route could go down to Highway 407 Station rather than loop in the VMC terminal.

 

[nfitz]

Perhaps the core 501 route could go down to Highway 407 Station rather than loop in the VMC terminal.

is think it would make more sense to send the Express down to 407.

 

[Leo_Chan]

There is a one-way eastbound busway through the hydro corridor between Hwy 407 station and Pioneer Village station

Google Streetview caught a bike in the bus lane.

 

[reaperexpress]

Google Streetview caught a bike in the bus lane.
View attachment 535427

Makes sense considering there are no longer any bus routes scheduled to use it, since they rerouted the 20 Jane to go through Steeles & Jane. Unless they introduce a bus route (such as the 501C) they probably should just convert it to a bike path.

I rode a bike down the York University Busway once in 2009 as well, before it opened for service. The Finch Hydro Corridor bike path wasn't built until 2011.

 

[anb]

Once the TTC-Suburban free transfer is implemented I suspect BT will try to shift the 501C to Highway 407 Station. But this will receive a lot of pushback from students at York University and Seneca@York, and that employment hubwith the bus stop on Keele in between Steeles and the 407.

A direct bus to campus is more convenient than transferring, waiting, and riding 2 stations on the subway.

The thing with this is that the damage was already done since the extension opening when YRT and GO got kicked out of serving the campus. Sure there might be some backlash for Brampton but with one fare there is a more fair compromise this time around. Also the benefits that the 501C serving Highway 407 could have especially for anyone that lives or rides east of Airport Rd. They have to currently either take multiple routes to backtrack to Bramalea GO which can take almost an hour alone, or deal with the double fare at VMC to Hwy 407 Station and its just really inconvenient.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

That's an interesting suggestion. I guess, one problem is that DRT doesn't currently have any service on Highway 7. Nearly all of its routes operate way further south. So, they would need to add an entirely new route to reach the Cornell terminal.

GO Transit runs bus routes along the 407. I'd suggest adding a few more stops, and maybe exiting the highway for a bit to pick up some local passengers before adding a DRT bus. Hwy 7 East of Cornell is pretty barren Sure this may increase the total travel time for the routes but there's no sense in creating a new/duplicate DRT route.

If and when Brooklin and Seaton build out and demand increase we can talk about adding a local DRT route.