VIA Rail

[Trackside_Treasure]

When there was an early departure from Kingston to Toronto the trains layed over at the cement plant overnight. There is also a wye there.

I believe they have a place to store catering in Kingston as well? So it has been done in the past. It's just that the train now starts in Ottawa instead. And they don't have additional slots through Smith falls.

Yes, I'm aware. But do we know that even if an overnight storage situation in Kingston was to go ahead, would this minimalist approach meet VIA safety and security requirements? Will CN approve it, though it hasn't been used since the pandemic and relations between CN and VIA are not currently the best? It was a dark, unlit, isolated and exposed location adjacent to a city street with zero security. The catering arrangements don't ring a bell. It's never been done with Venture sets.

The Ottawa start was a way to get the train consist through Kingston early in the morning, but overnighting the consist in Kingston is I'm sure what the politicians are thinking of, and it's really the only one that makes sense. Kingston has always been far more in the Toronto orbit re: day trips. Much more than Ottawa or Montreal. And though citizens and politicians may want it, and public support would definitely help, and though the early-morning up, late-night back train service was in place for years, it's been out of service for years and VIA is operating in a much different environment now.

 

[Bordercollie]

Yes, I'm aware. But do we know that even if an overnight storage situation in Kingston was to go ahead, would this minimalist approach meet VIA safety and security requirements? Will CN approve it, though it hasn't been used since the pandemic and relations between CN and VIA are not currently the best? It was a dark, unlit, isolated and exposed location adjacent to a city street with zero security. The catering arrangements don't ring a bell. It's never been done with Venture sets.

The Ottawa start was a way to get the train consist through Kingston early in the morning, but overnighting the consist in Kingston is I'm sure what the politicians are thinking of, and it's really the only one that makes sense. Kingston has always been far more in the Toronto orbit re: day trips. Much more than Ottawa or Montreal. And though citizens and politicians may want it, and public support would definitely help, and though the early-morning up, late-night back train service was in place for years, it's been out of service for years and VIA is operating in a much different environment now.

Is this spur line by Gardiner's Rd still active? Perhaps there is space there to store trains overnight? There was supposed to be another track to be built at Kingston, that would help provide space for layovers at the station overnight.

 

[Trackside_Treasure]

Is this spur line by Gardiner's Rd still active? Perhaps there is space there to store trains overnight? There was supposed to be another track to be built at Kingston, that would help provide space for layovers at the station overnight.

Yes, it is still there. There would definitely need to be some creative thinking to effect the changes area politicians are envisioning and gaining support for.

 

[micheal_can]

My 2 cents.
Via should keep the slots it has now along the Corridor that ALTO will cover. Losing those slots will be hard to get back if they ever need them.

 

[smallspy]

I can confirm it's not continuous welded rail (Ottawa to Brockville), as i rode the train and saw the tracks (dual tracked areas). The ride quality was poor and the train broke down in Brockville as it was a piece of trash. Train 47 Ottawa to Toronto (Oct 27 1220 hrs departure train). Now the new train sets I rode once before and enjoyed, but there were supposed have all the stock replaced by this summer which was clearly not the case. Also 1 hour delay as VIA began missing their assigned blocks on CN and Metrolinx tracks. You may say not their fault, but VIA decided to deploy a train that was unfit for service.

It is CWR, and it is all CWR. What you felt were either the very infrequent rail gaps for signalling equipment and expansion joints, or a pretty severe flat spot on one of the wheels.

For the record, Transport Canada will no longer allow passenger trains over a certain speed (I believe it is 60mph) on jointed rail.

Dan

 

[ShonTron]

That WAS all CWR. I haven't felt bolted track when travelling since the early 1980s (well - and on TTC streetcars until they finally finished Dundas in the 2000s).

Perhaps it was sidings or old track you saw. Or are you suggesting that VIA have replaced the CWR with bolted track?

I remember much of the CN Weston Sub being bolted rail when it was a single track corridor prior to GO Transit’s acquisition and reconstruction. But it’s been a long time now since I’ve heard that clickity clack.

 

[roger1818]

It is CWR, and it is all CWR. What you felt were either the very infrequent rail gaps for signalling equipment and expansion joints, or a pretty severe flat spot on one of the wheels.

Given that the OP was complaining about the age of the equipment, there is a good chance that it was a flat spot on a wheel.

 

[p_xavier]

My 2 cents.
Via should keep the slots it has now along the Corridor that ALTO will cover. Losing those slots will be hard to get back if they ever need them.

Wasn't that the plan in the first place? With all the negative feedback VIA received by having a through train to Toronto in the morning bypassing many cities, there's not much social approval to reduce service.

 

[micheal_can]

Wasn't that the plan in the first place? With all the negative feedback VIA received by having a through train to Toronto in the morning bypassing many cities, there's not much social approval to reduce service.

They have never been clear on the plan for the Corridor after ALTO. There has been a lot of conjecture, but nothing clear from the actual company.

 

[kEiThZ]

Any rumours on when VIA will finish retirement for all the legacy trainsets in the Corridor?

 

[Northern Light]

Any rumours on when VIA will finish retirement for all the legacy trainsets in the Corridor?

Good question, let me add another for those who follow VIA closely. With Via combining the rollingstock into longer trains that originally intended, they now have fewer total sets, I assume.

If this is going to stick, will they not need to order additional rollingstock for the corridor?

 

[crs1026]

If this is going to stick, will they not need to order additional rollingstock for the corridor?

If they are going to grow the business, yes.

The Venture order was sized on a seat-for-seat basis relative to the “old” fleet. In theory there would be short term gains thru greater reliability and more productive equipment utilisation…. But that is notional at best and leaves little true room for growth. It was a beancounting decision not a business decision, and this was followed by cancellation of options for further cars.

Definitely the CN signalling kaffuffle is being resolved by reconfiguring to fewer, longer trainsets. The juggling of cycling can only mitigate this so much.

- Paul

 

[p_xavier]

They have never been clear on the plan for the Corridor after ALTO. There has been a lot of conjecture, but nothing clear from the actual company.

Well just from this paragraph I guess, from ALTO's website.

VIA Rail’s passenger rail services in the Toronto–Québec City corridor will continue to operate during the development of Alto. Eventually, these existing local services will be integrated with Alto services to form a single network.

The implementation of Alto offers the opportunity to improve services on these existing rail routes so as to better address local needs, such as more tailored service schedules. This work will be further explored during the development phase of the project.

 

[reaperexpress]

Yes, I'm aware. But do we know that even if an overnight storage situation in Kingston was to go ahead, would this minimalist approach meet VIA safety and security requirements? Will CN approve it, though it hasn't been used since the pandemic and relations between CN and VIA are not currently the best? It was a dark, unlit, isolated and exposed location adjacent to a city street with zero security. The catering arrangements don't ring a bell. It's never been done with Venture sets.

The Ottawa start was a way to get the train consist through Kingston early in the morning, but overnighting the consist in Kingston is I'm sure what the politicians are thinking of, and it's really the only one that makes sense. Kingston has always been far more in the Toronto orbit re: day trips. Much more than Ottawa or Montreal. And though citizens and politicians may want it, and public support would definitely help, and though the early-morning up, late-night back train service was in place for years, it's been out of service for years and VIA is operating in a much different environment now.

We don't know the answers to those technical questions, but Via would only investigate them if someone is making a fuss.

The current timetables are remarkably bad for intermediate cities since they lack those aforementioned morning and evening trains. No early morning trains from Kingston to Montreal or Ottawa, and no late-evening trains from Montreal or Ottawa. This is not just about Kingston, it's also about all the other cities to the east. At Brockville station, the first train to Montreal doesn't depart until 14:56. At Cornwall, the first eastbound train doesn't depart until 10:40. From a pure cost/revenue perspective Via's current strategy of focusing on the 3 big cities is probably the right answer. But if we were to consider public rail service to be a public service, there would probably be case to introduce a wider span of service for intermediate cities even if that means reducing the number of Toronto-Ottawa trains from 10 round trips to 9.

 

[nfitz]

This really is a political move, not a transportation planning move. The Mayor of Kingston has an ongoing issue with VIA not realizing Kingston was never going to play a big role in the HSR/HFR route.

True - but the proposed service reduction does demonstrate that VIA was lying when they said that once HFR was in place, they would still be providing the same frequent service to Kingston. And yet not long after that blatant lie, they are already cutting Kingston service?

When there was an early departure from Kingston to Toronto the trains layed over at the cement plant overnight.

What's wrong with the current scheme? The current westbound earliest departure (train 641) from Ottawa, departs Kingston at 6:19 AM, arriving Toronto at 8:48 AM. That old pre-Covid early train (651) that started in Kingston, left at 5:32 AM, but didn't arrive in Toronto until 8:25 AM. Heck - I think I prefer the current schedule, with over 45-minutes more sleep!

I remember much of the CN Weston Sub being bolted rail when it was a single track corridor prior to GO Transit’s acquisition and reconstruction. But it’s been a long time now since I’ve heard that clickity clack.

Ah, good point. I was thinking of the Montreal-Ottawa-Kingston triangle. I certainly heard (felt!) clickety-clack on the Montreal-Quebec city trains on the Trois-Rivières line, in the late 1980s!

I have a high-school essay I desperately wrote on a Sunday evening from about 1981 from Toronto to Montreal. As soon as we hit the non-CWR my handwriting went from smooth to jumpy - it was quite notable!