VIA Rail

[TerryJohnson]

What's good about today's announcement, and what could be improved in future:

Victory: Early morning train from Kingston to Toronto reinstated

After four years of service suspension and vigorous campaigning for reinstatement, passengers from Kingston, Belleville, Cobourg, and Port Hope will once again have an early morning train to Toronto, starting on May 27, 2024, with VIA Rail’s summer timetable changes.

www.transportaction.ca

 

[nfitz]

... what could be improved in future:

Well, it could run on Fridays. And stop at one of the GO stations east of Union.

 

[crs1026]

I'm not looking a gift horse in the mouth.....but....one wonders whether a late evening departure out of Toronto, laying over in Kingston and returning by 0830, would carry more riders than 0418 out of Ottawa.....

- Paul

 

[dowlingm]

I'm not looking a gift horse in the mouth.....but....one wonders whether a late evening departure out of Toronto, laying over in Kingston and returning by 0830, would carry more riders than 0418 out of Ottawa.....

- Paul

I see it somewhat differently. Would it be more interesting for us if VIA laid out in more detail what the constraints are at Kingston or what it would take to re-establish stabling there, or explicitly presented the arrangements with CP at Smiths Falls, or understood what slots Metrolinx are willing to allow west of Pickering Junction while Ontario Line and LSE works are ongoing? Sure.

But at the same time, this is a net gain for people in Brockville particularly, and to some extent Ottawa. So where I would be going is, how soon before we can see 160 if not 177 operation from Fallowfield to Brockville, as well as uplift in the slow operating speeds between Ottawa station and Fallowfield, so that people in Ottawa don’t have to leave so early or the train can reliably arrive in time to hit an earlier LSE slot.

 

[smallspy]

I'm not looking a gift horse in the mouth.....but....one wonders whether a late evening departure out of Toronto, laying over in Kingston and returning by 0830, would carry more riders than 0418 out of Ottawa.....

- Paul

The trip from Ottawa to Kingston is basically a positioning move to get the train in place for its run. I suspect that VIA running it in service is more of a function of showing that they are using all of their slots properly, rather than having a non-revenue deadhead movement on the books in the limited slots available. I'm anticipating that the average number of passengers using that section of the run will be low single digits.

I would suspect that as the ridership returns (assuming that it will return, of course) and more of the new trains come online that there will be a move to return a Toronto-Kingston run to the schedule.

Dan

 

[Frank_Lee]

A probably meaningless announcement out of Alberta, but count me as surprised, nonetheless: https://www.railwayage.com/regulato...n-aimed-at-increasing-passenger-rail-service/

It does sound like they would try to cut out VIA from anything that did come from this, though.

 

[micheal_can]

A probably meaningless announcement out of Alberta, but count me as surprised, nonetheless: https://www.railwayage.com/regulato...n-aimed-at-increasing-passenger-rail-service/

It does sound like they would try to cut out VIA from anything that did come from this, though.

I have been talking of this for decades.

 

[generalcanada]

World standard signalling system to improve GO Train service

GO Expansion signals to a future with faster, safer, and more reliable trains.

www.metrolinx.com

In Ontario, GO Trains operate largely on track owned by Metrolinx, so ETCS L2 will be deployed throughout Metrolinx-owned track. Tenant passenger trains that operate on Metrolinx-owned track, such as VIA Rail, will also be equipped with ETCS L2.

Tenant freight trains, such as Canadian National Railway (CN) and Canadian Pacific Railway (CP), that use Metrolinx tracks to service their customers will not be equipped with ETCS.

Instead, conventional line-of-sight signals, which use coloured lights to manage traffic, will be maintained throughout Metrolinx’s territory to:

• provide continued support for freight operators
• support GO/VIA passenger operations during ETCS deployment phases
• serve as backup for ETCS-equipped trains for the long-term, in rare cases of degraded operations

 

[DSC]

I used to love that train! Great way to get from Montreal to Toronto in time for an early meeting! See: https://www.transportaction.ca/topi...ng-train-from-kingston-to-toronto-reinstated/

Return of the Cavalier?​

Rail advocates with long memories will recall the Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto night trains, known as the Cavalier, which fell victim to the 1990 cuts before briefly being reinstated as the Montreal-Toronto Enterprise in the early 2000s. The resurgence of night trains in Europe suggests the there may now be a more of a market for such an opportunity to avoid flights and hotel nights, and the new schedule of 641 would be compatible with running through from an evening departure from Montreal. Transport Action would welcome the return of such a service, which would also offer a much later evening departure from Toronto. However, VIA Rail is critically short of sleeping cars, at least until new long-distance fleet deliveries begin, with which to equip such a night train.

 

[micheal_can]

I used to love that train! Great way to get from Montreal to Toronto in time for an early meeting! See: https://www.transportaction.ca/topi...ng-train-from-kingston-to-toronto-reinstated/

Return of the Cavalier?​

Rail advocates with long memories will recall the Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto night trains, known as the Cavalier, which fell victim to the 1990 cuts before briefly being reinstated as the Montreal-Toronto Enterprise in the early 2000s. The resurgence of night trains in Europe suggests the there may now be a more of a market for such an opportunity to avoid flights and hotel nights, and the new schedule of 641 would be compatible with running through from an evening departure from Montreal. Transport Action would welcome the return of such a service, which would also offer a much later evening departure from Toronto. However, VIA Rail is critically short of sleeping cars, at least until new long-distance fleet deliveries begin, with which to equip such a night train.

Could they simply use the regular trains ad equip them with seats that recline back further?
Or, could they order a few more and modify them in house to be suitable for sleeping on?

 

[dowlingm]

Could they simply use the regular trains ad equip them with seats that recline back further?
Or, could they order a few more and modify them in house to be suitable for sleeping on?

Given the maintenance agreements with Siemens it seems unlikely that any “in house” mods will be done in the early years of these trainsets. As far as ordering more trainsets goes - with whose money will these be purchased when VIA’s stated priority is to replace the LD fleet?

 

[micheal_can]

Given the maintenance agreements with Siemens it seems unlikely that any “in house” mods will be done in the early years of these trainsets.

Could some be modified from Siemens with not an exceptionally higher cost?

As far as ordering more trainsets goes - with whose money will these be purchased when VIA’s stated priority is to replace the LD fleet?

Via can order more, but if they have not budgeted it, it would need another act of parliament. However, if they are getting the funding for the LDF replacement, I would hold off and just get the equipment from that.

 

[roger1818]

Could some be modified from Siemens with not an exceptionally higher cost?

The NRE on one off customizations would be very high per trainset. It might also trigger the need for an updated TC safety approval. There is a reason the Northlander is using the same design as VIA Rail, without any customizations.

Via can order more, but if they have not budgeted it, it would need another act of parliament. However, if they are getting the funding for the LDF replacement, I would hold off and just get the equipment from that.

VIA's priority is to replace the LD fleet. This would distract from that and I am not convinced that there is enough money to be made to make it a priority. Better to wait to see if the LD fleet actually gets replaced and use equipment from that.

The other factor that affects the return of the Cavalier (via Ottawa) would be the number of slots crossing the CPR Winchester sub (especially in Smiths Falls but also near De Beaujeu). Better to use those limited slots for trains that will carry double if not tripple the number of passengers. HFR would solve this, as most trains would remain north of the Bellville Sub (until Tornonto, where a grade separated crossing would likely be built).

 

[micheal_can]

The NRE on one off customizations would be very high per trainset. It might also trigger the need for an updated TC safety approval. There is a reason the Northlander is using the same design as VIA Rail, without any customizations.



VIA's priority is to replace the LD fleet. This would distract from that and I am not convinced that there is enough money to be made to make it a priority. Better to wait to see if the LD fleet actually gets replaced and use equipment from that.

The other factor that affects the return of the Cavalier (via Ottawa) would be the number of slots crossing the CPR Winchester sub (especially in Smiths Falls but also near De Beaujeu). Better to use those limited slots for trains that will carry double if not tripple the number of passengers. HFR would solve this, as most trains would remain north of the Bellville Sub (until Tornonto, where a grade separated crossing would likely be built).

So, likely not happening till after the LDF replacement and HFR? So, that's about 10-20years.

 

[kEiThZ]

So, likely not happening till after the LDF replacement and HFR? So, that's about 10-20years.

Or never. If DND has no real budget for NRE, there's no way VIA is getting one. Also, NRE to create a niche, orphan sub-fleet with even more management and scheduling headaches? Only rail nerds would think that's a good idea. Finally, HFR would make any sort of overnight Corridor East train redundant.