VIA Rail

[dowlingm]

Agreed. Let’s compare us to the UK or France. Our VIA system is a disgrace. Even compare us to Australia which has a similar development level and had much better rail system.

Can we not with this. We are comparing entire countries to an individual inter-regional operator. Within those countries there will be operators who provide good service and those that do not, and in other situations where the same operator may have better stations than VIA and worse on train service or vice versa. Whatever about France and Australia, whose systems I don’t follow closely, it is not hard to find examples of where some UK train operators do a pretty awful job.

There is a desire to justify what is wanted by a national rail system by virtue to what other nations have. Other nations have more favourable ownership environments or treat rail as a “national champion” or are fortunate in their geography. Canada suffers from having quite different needs in different parts of the same country, and therefore in creating a national strategy which won’t immediately be attacked by those who don’t benefit from it, or if they did benefit from it just dislike national public services on spec. We can’t even refurbish the residence of the leader of our Parliament without it being decried as waste and a favour to a politician others dislike. We can’t even get consensus here, a self selecting group interested in transportation and infrastructure. How the hell are we going to get a step change to a Shinkansen at the end of every laneway?

The answer is - we can’t, and shouldn’t fool ourselves. We had an opportunity with HFR to spend politically achievable sums on gradually reinforcing the part of VIA’s network that really worked, a 100mph core that might become 125 in spots, with add-ons like the north Shore and Peterborough.

And then, someone put a spoke in the wheel with this P3 business, VIA’s 32 trainsets and options for 16 because just 32 trainsets and any expansion was deemed someone else’s responsibility, and that someone then said “HSR! Tens of billions!” and the result is we are unlikely to see any material improvement in the next 20 years any more than we did in the last 30.

 

[lead82]

I. wholly agree with you. My point in comparison was that the politics and interest in intercity rail in Canada and NA in general is non-existent. The politics reflect this. No one cares. The Liberals had almost 10 years to make substantial changes. Yes its was typical virtue signaling. All we got was new trains. HFR/HSR will sadly go nowhere. Since no construction will begin before 2025, this program will be cancelled once the Tories come into power. Their base doesn’t care for it. I personally feel that VIA will be split apart and privatized in the Corridor and a rudimentary service provided in the routes like the Ocean and Canadian maintained for remote settlements access only.

The rejuvenation of rail will sadly never happen in this country. We don’t have any real vision for the country by our politicians or take pride in our infrastructure. Call me pessimistic but looking back at least 25 years - VIA service has gone downhill as our population explodes. There is less service today and it’s way slower. It used to take 4-4.5hr to get from Toronto - Montreal and now it’s 5-5.5h. This is sad, especially as our leaders scream climate change and housing yet do nothing to allow folks to move between Canadian cities without flying or driving.

Canadian federal politicians this century have not invested in our infrastructure and we continue to live of investments made in the 50-70s. We can barely build a pipeline much less a national rail service or heck even get free trade within provinces.

 

[crs1026]

^The observation in all of this that is fair is that VIA has always delivered a state of good repair, in a way that some operators in other jurisdictions clearly haven't. If you ever rode a Thunder Bay built bilevel in Metrolink (with a k) service.... the difference was instantly obvious.

I have never found Amtrak to be threadbare, but just as high traffic subways aren't always pristine, Amtrak trains in mainline service certainly show wear and tear.

I'm not sure I am proud that we can eat off the floor of a spotless HEP coach that is approaching 75 years in age. Maybe we should do better and not point fingers.

- Paul

 

[Bojaxs]

^The observation in all of this that is fair is that VIA has always delivered a state of good repair, in a way that some operators in other jurisdictions clearly haven't. If you ever rode a Thunder Bay built bilevel in Metrolink (with a k) service.... the difference was instantly obvious.

I have never found Amtrak to be threadbare, but just as high traffic subways aren't always pristine, Amtrak trains in mainline service certainly show wear and tear.

I'm not sure I am proud that we can eat off the floor of a spotless HEP coach that is approaching 75 years in age. Maybe we should do better and not point fingers.

- Paul

The amount of tagging/ vandalism you see on passenger trains in Europe is staggering. Something you hardly ever see in North America.


Even on the inside of the trains. This video really shows how much of an issue the vandalism of trains is in Europe. At one point of the video they can't even see out the windows because of all the spray paint.

 

[adys123]

The amount of tagging/ vandalism you see on passenger trains in Europe is staggering. Something you hardly ever see in North America.
View attachment 550449

Even on the inside of the trains. This video really shows how much of an issue the vandalism of trains is in Europe. At one point of the video they can't even see out the windows because of all the spray paint.

I think this is less of a commentary on maintenance and cleaning practices and more on the prevalence of passenger based rail transit. Where it serves a much larger population, with greater turnover at lower cost.

 

[wopchop]

Recently, in the past 10 years, our company had discussions with the carriers about movements in volume from both coasts to the Toronto and Ontario area and were always taken aback by the time required and the attitude - ”Here is our service, if you don’t like it, get a truck”. So, yes. Trucks(s) ( with emphasis on the s ) it was. But the lack of interest in innovation, in expanding service, in improving service times was startling at the time. I still firmly believe that railways could play a much greater role in moving goods and commodities around this country and continent - but it’s going to take leadership that I am not sure is there to see opportunities. And leadership that looks past the legacy (?) of Hunter Harrison.

So what we did was deal with FastFrate to handle our intermodal - Toronto to Vancouver, then on to Seattle or Portland. We actually got good customer service. I guess because they have preferred terminal access, and are picking up the last mile, they were able to arrange things that we simply could not.

 

[dowlingm]

The amount of tagging/ vandalism you see on passenger trains in Europe is staggering. Something you hardly ever see in North America.
View attachment 550449

Even on the inside of the trains. This video really shows how much of an issue the vandalism of trains is in Europe. At one point of the video they can't even see out the windows because of all the spray paint.

According to this article, the railway company claims industrial paints are being used to defeat standard cleaning, and drones to monitor for any security response to the taggers.

Drones, social media and indelible paint: How graffiti attacks on trains have stepped up

Irish rail fell victim to gangs whose ambition is to get their 'moniker' on as many European rail fleets as possible

www.irishtimes.com

 

[micheal_can]

I posted this over on the Danforth extension thread, but maybe it is better suited here. I learned how close McCowen station will be to the CP Agincourt yard and the tracks leading into it. IIRC, Via's HFR is planned to go through there. If so, would McCowen Station become an intermodal station? I know the old documentation was based on this line extension not being this far.

 

[cplchanb]

The amount of tagging/ vandalism you see on passenger trains in Europe is staggering. Something you hardly ever see in North America.
View attachment 550449

Even on the inside of the trains. This video really shows how much of an issue the vandalism of trains is in Europe. At one point of the video they can't even see out the windows because of all the spray paint.

wouldnt that be more of an issue of security of the MSFs over the actual quality of their service? its not like vandals are tagging while the train is in service. this is all overnight work.

 

[Bojaxs]

wouldnt that be more of an issue of security of the MSFs over the actual quality of their service?

My post wasn't regarding service. More regarding the cleanliness of the trains.

its not like vandals are tagging while the train is in service.

Then how do you explain the tagging on the inside of the trains?

 

[cplchanb]

My post wasn't regarding service. More regarding the cleanliness of the trains.


Then how do you explain the tagging on the inside of the trains?

True but I think it's something that is unavoidable unless there's a lot of surplus rolling stock to bring in while the affected interiors are cleaned. It's more of a culture thing overseas. You don't see japan having vandalized trains becuase they value rail as the pride of their culture. Meanwhile, European vandals value trains as a blank canvas

 

[Urban Sky]

True but I think it's something that is unavoidable unless there's a lot of surplus rolling stock to bring in while the affected interiors are cleaned. It's more of a culture thing overseas. You don't see japan having vandalized trains becuase they value rail as the pride of their culture. Meanwhile, European vandals value trains as a blank canvas

I don‘t think that the amount of graffiti and vandalism on trains are that much of a cultural thing (at least not when comparing North America and Europe): both were so epidemic on the NYC Subway throughout the 1970s that it even has its own Winipedia entry:

Graffiti in New York City - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

It was only through quick response (e.g., immediate removal of any vandalized trains) and massive enforcement (to an extent which is unthinkable in most European countries with living memories with police states and dictatorships), which slowly suppressed the issue…

 

[Bojaxs]

True but I think it's something that is unavoidable unless there's a lot of surplus rolling stock to bring in while the affected interiors are cleaned. It's more of a culture thing overseas. You don't see japan having vandalized trains becuase they value rail as the pride of their culture. Meanwhile, European vandals value trains as a blank canvas

Right, my point being that while Canada doesn't have the best service compared to Europe/ Asia, Canadians still take pride in what we have, while maintaining a desire to see it improved. That's usually visible in how clean our trains are, drivers respecting rail road crossings, etc.

The fact that VIA has coaches from the 1950's still running on our tracks, and they're generally in good condition, I think says a lot about the train culture in Canada. Whether that's a good thing or bad thing I guess depends on who you ask.

 

[Garuda]

Right, my point being that while Canada doesn't have the best service compared to Europe/ Asia, Canadians still take pride in what we have, while maintaining a desire to see it improved. That's usually visible in how clean our trains are, drivers respecting rail road crossings, etc.

The fact that VIA has coaches from the 1950's still running on our tracks, and they're generally in good condition, I think says a lot about the train culture in Canada. Whether that's a good thing or bad thing I guess depends on who you ask.

One the Canadian and other remote western trains I don't see anything other than those caches from the 1950's. They're just too iconic.

 

[Urban Sky]

One the Canadian and other remote western trains I don't see anything other than those caches from the 1950's. They're just too iconic.

I‘m sure the same was said at some point about steam engines hauling the „Ocean Ltd.“, „California Zephyr“ and other iconic trains in North America…