roger1818
Senior Member
I think there is a good chance that megabus will takeover many of Greyhound's routes in both Western and Eastern Ontario and Ontario Northland will takeover many of the more northern routes.
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VIA Rail
- Thread starter ehlow
- Start date
I think there is a good chance that megabus will takeover many of Greyhound's routes in both Western and Eastern Ontario and Ontario Northland will takeover many of the more northern routes.
littlewill1166
Active Member
Honestly, I'd rather GO take over since it's HST-free, and they don't have variable pricing. And they have fare capping (for the commuters).
Are you happy?
Bordercollie
Senior Member
Since when does GO have service to Windsor?
littlewill1166
Active Member
I meant as a future service. They'd probably have better frequencies since they have busses that can operate during off peak hours. And it's unfair that other provinces are subsidizing intraprovincial travel in Ontario through VIA.
Urban Sky
Senior Member
The only reason why GO can offer frequent services on some of its routes is that they were able to acquire these network segments. As much as I would love to see the entire TRTO-BRTF/KITC-LNDN-WDON/SARN corridor under public control, I struggle to see how CN’s shareholders would accept their sale for any price which would be remotely defensible in the public eye.
Also, given that direct&indirect cost&revenue figures disclosed by VIA in recent (but of course pre-Covid) Corporate Plans suggest that its corridor services generated revenues 30% higher than the costs which their operation caused, I would assume that at least TRTO-WDON breaks even and thus saves rather than costs the federal taxpayer by reducing rather than increasing its operating subsidy need. Nevertheless, I don’t think that any federal bureaucrat or politician would mind if the Ontarian taxpayer volunteered to assume the funding responsibility for those VIA services which actually depend on operational funding…
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kEiThZ
Superstar
Yes.
And I'll be happier when HFR kills the business case for most inter-city buses in the Corridor.
roger1818
Senior Member
You you are happy that towns that don't have train stations will become more car dependant? We don't have tracks to every town in the Corridor.
Frank_Lee
New Member
That's an empirical question. It's unambiguously clear that HFR would steal market share from Megabus and regional air, but whether people currently travelling by bus services that end up being cancelled or having reduced service would fully substitute to car vs. substituting to car+train is not something we can just theorize about. How large is the population base in towns that don't have stations on either the existing corridor (which would still be served by rail) or HFR? You need to know that, at least, before we can even pull numbers out of thin air to support our varying claims on bus usage. Personally, I imagine a dense and frequent bus intercity bus network would be a net complement to better intercity rail service in that they might generate network effects towards car-free travel if suitably integrated.
This brings to mind a question. How close are the Megabus stations to Via stations, current or proposed?
roger1818
Senior Member
I don't have numbers but here is a map of Greyhound routes in eastern Ontario and western Quebec pre-COVID. Some were express routes, but many were stopping routes.
I then overlaid the map with VIA Rail's network (blue) and the proposed HFR route (orange). There is some overlap, but there are also a lot of routes that won't be covered by VIA.
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littlewill1166
Active Member
Below is a table of the current number of daily services and the minimum fare for an adult on each carrier.
| # of daily services/price | Brantford | Niagara Falls | Kitchener |
| GO Transit | 13/$15.44 | 18/$17.79 | 21/$16.32 |
| VIA | 2/$30.51 | 2/$20.34 | 2/$27.12 |
GO delivers between 6 and 10 for prices lower than VIA. GO also offers an on-time service guarantee and a full refund for rail journies over 15 minutes late. VIA only offers a travel credit at a rate of (50% 1-hour+, 100% 4-hours+). GO leverages public infrastructure between Aldershot and Brantford to offer these services (Highway 403). On KITC-LNDN-WDON there is Highway 401 and 403. On LNDN-WDON there is Highway 401, and between LNDN-SARN there is Highway 402. GO demonstrates that there is no need to acquire any infrastructure from CN to offer frequent and affordable service between Brantford and Toronto.
Sources:
GO Brantford Timetable
GO Kitchener TImetable
GO Niagara Timetable
VIA Timetable
Yes, but having VIA add additional services to SWO as @Bordercollie is suggesting would implicitly require additional rolling stock, and potentially station upgrades. I do not think that the feds should foot the entire bill for trainsets/stations in SWO. Although corridor services have a positive contribution towards covering fixed expenses, they still generate an overall loss when depreciation and other fixed costs are added as shown in #6,707. GO has bilevels and locos that are being cascaded from RER which could be used for these services.
reaperexpress
Senior Member
I'm pretty sure that Greyhound map is way out of date, and most of those routes were already abandoned before 2020. In fact, many of those routes were already abandoned in 2016 when I fact-checked Greyhound's system map using their website's trip planner. The last time I checked which services they actually ran was in 2019, and these were the only routes which ran at least one bus per weekday:
Urban Sky
Senior Member
I have the suspicion that we keep misunderstanding each other as to whether we are talking about current bus, current rail, future bus or future rail services. But in any case, I agree that it is not the responsibility of the federal taxpayer to replace failed private bus services through federally funded passenger rail services...
littlewill1166
Active Member
Yes, what I was saying was that GO has more flexibility to deliver more frequent and affordable services as an integrated bus and rail operator vs VIA who is confined to operating trains by its mandate. And that the Feds shouldn't use federal taxpayer money to replace a failed intraprovincial bus service.
Urban Sky
Senior Member
Okay, now I get it, thanks for clarifying and fully agreed!
kEiThZ
Superstar
Happy?
No. Even better. I don't give a .... about them. I don't think about them. At all.
This is URBAN TORONTO and I am absolutely sick of all our transportation policy discussion being driven by the burghers of Trenton and Brockville. It's bad enough that their votes count for more. I'm supposed to worry about their feelings too?
Really easy. If the riders are there, somebody will cater to it. And if not, they have their pickup trucks.