VIA Rail

[crs1026]

You don't consider two/three days to restore service a long time?

Wreck happened Thursday morning, observer reports on social media indicate the south track reopened around dinner time on Friday.

In terms of linear feet of track destroyed, there wasn't much work needed to restore the south track. Unlike the old days, when big steam cranes used to elegantly place cars back on the rails one by one... these days the wreck crews (usually contractors) just punch a path through the mess and lay in pre-assembled panels of track (which are staged in strategic locations). Deal with the wrecked cars later, usually by just scrapping them on site, after trains are running again.

Mobilizing unplanned detours is not simple or quick, and the dearth of interchanges makes that quite inconvenient. There is little slack in either railway's labour pool to pilot and staff detour trains. "Wait it out" is the more likely solution when the line can be reopened in about 36 hours.

- Paul

 

[kEiThZ]

The money was already borrowed by Ottawa and deposited in the CIB.

Is this actually true? My understanding was that the bank was to be capitalized over time. IE $30B over a decade. (Not exact number.)

It kinda sucks that the CPC dislikes the concept. There's value in an agency that brings focused infrastructure financing expertise, has the flexibility to partner with investors and can smooth government capital flows over time.

It should be noted that the CPC's objection to the CIB is based on its narrow mandate of funding green infrastructure. I suspect that if the CIB was building pipelines, the view would be very different.

 

[roger1818]

Its funny that CN can run more trains on the CP line, but heaven forbid VIA would be allowed to do the same. Instead they have to add 2 hours to their Montreal train.

The Winchester sub is not approved for passenger trains by Transport Canada. Even if it was, I highly doubt that using it would shave 2 hours off the trip, especially with all the freight congestion.

 

[littlewill1166]

I'm never sure when sarcasm begins, but just in case this is to be read literally... I'm not aware that there were any detour trains. CN simply held everything until the line reopened. Then, there was a flurry of catchup.

While this wreck was serious in many respects, it did not take very much trackage out of service for all that long. Amazing what a couple bulldozers can do once the investigators release the site.

- Paul

I was serious, I live near the mid Toronto line and there have been more trains than usual. I had trouble sleeping last night because of the noise. Some locos had CN on them, but it's also not that uncommon even before the incident.

Nonetheless, I'm sorry. I should have said that the CP mid Toronto line has been busier than usual since the incident. And the uptick in traffic has been disruptive to residents living along the corridor.

 

[littlewill1166]

Its funny that CN can run more trains on the CP line, but heaven forbid VIA would be allowed to do the same. Instead they have to add 2 hours to their Montreal train.

There aren't any stations for the trains to stop at.

 

[crs1026]

Is this actually true? My understanding was that the bank was to be capitalized over time. IE $30B over a decade. (Not exact number.)

According to this report, p14, you are correct, the money is not all sitting in their account. As of last December, the bank's assets totalled about $1.4B.

CIB currently receives appropriations from the Government of Canada. Parliament has authorized up to $35 billion over 11 years (to fiscal year-end 2027-28), and the requisite authorities to participate in infrastructure transactions. Of the $35 billion, the Government of Canada anticipates allocating $15 billion against the fiscal framework.

That may improve the numbers from what I suggested, but I'm not sure it makes the CIB look any more attractive. Perhaps the opposite - It's still a very expensive way to administer $1.2B in infrastructure investment.

- Paul

 

[Bordercollie]

According to this report, p14, you are correct, the money is not all sitting in their account. As of last December, the bank's assets totalled about $1.4B.



That may improve the numbers from what I suggested, but I'm not sure it makes the CIB look any more attractive. Perhaps the opposite - It's still a very expensive way to administer $1.2B in infrastructure investment.

- Paul

I wonder how much it would cost to re-instate the line from Sudbury to Ottawa ? Seeing the growth in intermodal transport I would think it would be helpful.

You could make it single track with passing sidings, with CTC signalling along the way.

 

[lenaitch]

I wonder how much it would cost to re-instate the line from Sudbury to Ottawa ? Seeing the growth in intermodal transport I would think it would be helpful.

You could make it single track with passing sidings, with CTC signalling along the way.

Sudbury to Smiths Falls actually. CP decided they didn't need it. A lot of their intermodal traffic comes through the US so I'm not sure it would make much difference. None of the railroads want to keep lines just in case, particularly ones that have virtually no enroute revenue. Besides, if they are successful with their bid for KCS, they will be taking on a whack of debt.

 

[Bordercollie]

Sudbury to Smiths Falls actually. CP decided they didn't need it. A lot of their intermodal traffic comes through the US so I'm not sure it would make much difference. None of the railroads want to keep lines just in case, particularly ones that have virtually no enroute revenue. Besides, if they are successful with their bid for KCS, they will be taking on a whack of debt.

Another note with Prime Minister O'Toole likely to win the election, you can kiss all of those election promises goodbye. Including VIA HFR.

They would rather build 2 more lanes on the 401 than spend money on VIA rail.

And electrification of the corridor between union west to Windsor won't be happening anytime soon. Including the money for upgrading the Milton line.

Like the Harper ages we will see cuts to balance the budget in ten years. That's his platform.

 

[Urban Sky]

The Winchester sub is not approved for passenger trains by Transport Canada. Even if it was, I highly doubt that using it would shave 2 hours off the trip, especially with all the freight congestion.

Not to mention the need (for non-Push-Pull trains) to wye the locomotive in Smiths Falls to reverse directions...

Like the Harper ages we will see cuts to balance the budget in ten years. That's his platform.

Despite its reputation, the Harper administration actually oversaw and funded the partial triple-tracking of the Kingston Subdivision and the conversion of 8 Chateau and 4 Park cars to form the new Prestige Class - two crucial and quite substantial modernization strategies.

 

[Bordercollie]

Not to mention the need (for non-Push-Pull trains) to wye the locomotive in Smiths Falls to reverse directions...


Despite its reputation, the Harper administration actually oversaw and funded the partial triple-tracking of the Kingston Subdivision and the conversion of 8 Chateau and 4 Park cars to form the new Prestige Class - two crucial and quite substantial modernization strategies.

But isnt that that same time the Canadian went from once a day to three times a week? And the Ocean went from daily to three times a week?

Not to mention the need (for non-Push-Pull trains) to wye the locomotive in Smiths Falls to reverse directions...


Despite its reputation, the Harper administration actually oversaw and funded the partial triple-tracking of the Kingston Subdivision and the conversion of 8 Chateau and 4 Park cars to form the new Prestige Class - two crucial and quite substantial modernization strategies.

 

[kEiThZ]

Another note with Prime Minister O'Toole likely to win the election, you can kiss all of those election promises goodbye. Including VIA HFR.

VIA HFR was specifically mentioned in the CPC platform as a shovel ready platform they would fund.

I suspect they might rejig it, to remove things like electrification. But good chance they build it. In no small part because the electoral calculus has decent returns. They want to win back and keep Peterborough. They probably see a chance to win and retain Glengarry-Prescott-Russell. Trois-Rivières is a three way fight between the Bloc, the Liberals and the Conservatives.

HFR isn't going to move votes in the large metros. But building it will most certainly move votes in these cities. And whoever is in power on opening day is going to be able to enjoy an advantage for years.

There's also the whole Kingston hub and Lakeshore service. If VIA can genuinely deliver service that is more schedule friendly to these residents, there may be electoral returns there too. These people care about more convenient service for them. Not the number of trains (some of which don't even stop for them).

And electrification of the corridor between union west to Windsor won't be happening anytime soon. Including the money for upgrading the Milton line.

HFR West was always going to be a long ways off. There's not even any study right now. Forget a plan to build and electrification. They can continue the studies the Liberals launched and that will keep the study team occupied for years. In any event, nothing can be done without Union West. And that alone is still a decade away at this point.

Despite its reputation, the Harper administration actually oversaw and funded the partial triple-tracking of the Kingston Subdivision and the conversion of 8 Chateau and 4 Park cars to form the new Prestige Class - two crucial and quite substantial modernization strategies.

That may be. But their motivation on this upgrade, was in no small part because they wanted to avoid larger spending programs and the collapse of VIA on their watch. They refused to study HFR. And they refused to invest in fleet modernization, despite how old a lot of the fleet already was when they took power.

 

[Bordercollie]

VIA HFR was specifically mentioned in the CPC platform as a shovel ready platform they would fund.

I suspect they might rejig it, to remove things like electrification. But good chance they build it. In no small part because the electoral calculus has decent returns. They want to win back and keep Peterborough. They probably see a chance to win and retain Glengarry-Prescott-Russell. Trois-Rivières is a three way fight between the Bloc, the Liberals and the Conservatives.

HFR isn't going to move votes in the large metros. But building it will most certainly move votes in these cities. And whoever is in power on opening day is going to be able to enjoy an advantage for years.

There's also the whole Kingston hub and Lakeshore service. If VIA can genuinely deliver service that is more schedule friendly to these residents, there may be electoral returns there too. These people care about more convenient service for them. Not the number of trains (some of which don't even stop for them).



HFR West was always going to be a long ways off. There's not even any study right now. Forget a plan to build and electrification. They can continue the studies the Liberals launched and that will keep the study team occupied for years. In any event, nothing can be done without Union West. And that alone is still a decade away at this point.



That may be. But their motivation on this upgrade, was in no small part because they wanted to avoid larger spending programs and the collapse of VIA on their watch. They refused to study HFR. And they refused to invest in fleet modernization, despite how old a lot of the fleet already was when they took power.

I think that they may do the same and "upgrade" the existing corridor as a stop gap and avoid spending the bid bucks on a new corridor like the Harper government.

Waa this not the same government that cancelled the high-speed rail project approved by the former liberal government? There is no denying that everytime a concervative government wins an election there are always massive cuts to public service to please the wealthy and to cut taxes.

 

[lenaitch]

Another note with Prime Minister O'Toole likely to win the election, you can kiss all of those election promises goodbye. Including VIA HFR.

They would rather build 2 more lanes on the 401 than spend money on VIA rail.

And electrification of the corridor between union west to Windsor won't be happening anytime soon. Including the money for upgrading the Milton line.

Like the Harper ages we will see cuts to balance the budget in ten years. That's his platform.

None of which has anything to do with re-establishing the CP Ottawa Valley route.

 

[DirectionNorth]

But isnt that that same time the Canadian went from once a day to three times a week? And the Ocean went from daily to three times a week?

Hasn't the Canadian been 3 times a week since 1990?

VIA HFR was specifically mentioned in the CPC platform as a shovel ready platform they would fund.

I suspect they might rejig it, to remove things like electrification. But good chance they build it. In no small part because the electoral calculus has decent returns. They want to win back and keep Peterborough. They probably see a chance to win and retain Glengarry-Prescott-Russell. Trois-Rivières is a three way fight between the Bloc, the Liberals and the Conservatives.

HFR isn't going to move votes in the large metros. But building it will most certainly move votes in these cities. And whoever is in power on opening day is going to be able to enjoy an advantage for years.

There's also the whole Kingston hub and Lakeshore service. If VIA can genuinely deliver service that is more schedule friendly to these residents, there may be electoral returns there too. These people care about more convenient service for them. Not the number of trains (some of which don't even stop for them).

HFR West was always going to be a long ways off. There's not even any study right now. Forget a plan to build and electrification. They can continue the studies the Liberals launched and that will keep the study team occupied for years. In any event, nothing can be done without Union West. And that alone is still a decade away at this point.

That may be. But their motivation on this upgrade, was in no small part because they wanted to avoid larger spending programs and the collapse of VIA on their watch. They refused to study HFR. And they refused to invest in fleet modernization, despite how old a lot of the fleet already was when they took power.

Hm, I think that the overall effect in the 905 will be small, but even one percent can flip seats. If it gets them votes there, I think they'll do it.

I think that they may do the same and "upgrade" the existing corridor as a stop gap and avoid spending the bid bucks on a new corridor like the Harper government.

They might, but again, if it wins seats in the 905, it's game.

Waa this not the same government that cancelled the high-speed rail project approved by the former liberal government? There is no denying that everytime a concervative government wins an election there are always massive cuts to public service to please the wealthy and to cut taxes.

Was that ever more than a study? I remember them having 4 years to implement it ... and they did nothing at all.

Another note with Prime Minister O'Toole likely to win the election, you can kiss all of those election promises goodbye. Including VIA HFR.

I think O'Toole is smarter than to lose votes in the area. If he does that now, he won't win another election.

They would rather build 2 more lanes on the 401 than spend money on VIA rail.

And? How much did the Harper government spend on the 401?

And electrification of the corridor between union west to Windsor won't be happening anytime soon. Including the money for upgrading the Milton line.

And would that have happened under a Liberal government either?

Like the Harper ages we will see cuts to balance the budget in ten years. That's his platform.

If you'd bothered to look at all, the platform includes HFR.

Do I believe that they will 100% go through with it? No, there's a decent chance they won't; here's hoping that they get a minority so they do go through with it. Do I think it has better chances under another government? Not really.