VIA Rail

[ManyQuestions]

How about starting with increasing train trips on the corridor now? I heard that they are bringing back trains that were suspended during covid sometime in August.

They recently brought back third ottawa-montreal train but I'm still driving despite having tons of via points because they are missing times that work with my work and classes... I like the train but I can't justify using it much anymore with the higher covid prices, reduces frequencies, and longer queues. I understand that it's because of pandemic, the new id rules, and that people generally shouldn't be traveling for leasure now, but I'm still disappointed that we now seem to get have indefinitely lost much of the intercity public transit service in the Toronto-Quebec corridor. (Idk about West of Toronto)

Hopefully this announcement is good news.

 

[allengeorge]

Another announcement about improving passenger service to the southwest today, but more noteably, this one took place in Brantford.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1423277429125226496

Government of Canada to explore opportunities to enhance passenger rail services in Southwestern Ontario

The Government of Canada is committed to working towards enhancing and modernizing intercity passenger rail services in a way that will best meet the transportation needs of travellers, as outlined in the vision for Transportation 2030.

www.canada.ca

I don’t believe anything the Federal government says about VIA until there’s construction happening. So many announcements about studies and vision. Who cares. I want action.

 

[Garuda]

Another announcement about improving passenger service to the southwest today, but more noteably, this one took place in Brantford.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1423277429125226496

Government of Canada to explore opportunities to enhance passenger rail services in Southwestern Ontario

The Government of Canada is committed to working towards enhancing and modernizing intercity passenger rail services in a way that will best meet the transportation needs of travellers, as outlined in the vision for Transportation 2030.

www.canada.ca

Never go full Steven Del Duca.

you can tell the Liberals are in full election mode with empty promises no actual actions.
At least Metrolinx ran a train to London to test potential service.

 

[Bojaxs]

I know it's outdated technology (at least for everywhere in the world, except Canada), but would Via's HFR be quicker and cheaper to implement if we used HS diesel trains? The British did it with the Class 43 trains. Fastest diesel trains in the world (125mph/ 200km/h). Plus the trains look better without all the over hanging cables, wires, etc.

 

[reaperexpress]

I know it's outdated technology (at least for everywhere in the world, except Canada), but would Via's HFR be quicker and cheaper to implement if we used HS diesel trains? The British did it with the Class 43 trains. Fastest diesel trains in the world (125mph/ 200km/h). Plus the trains look better without all the over hanging cables, wires, etc.

These also go 125 mph / 200 km/h:

Electrification of the HFR route is purely a greenwashing exercise. There's no way the cost/benefit makes sense with 1 intercity train per hour. You could reduce far more emissions if that money were instead spent electrifying rail lines with frequent local service, such as the O-Train Trillium line, and setting up battery-bus charging infrastructure for local bus services.

 

[kEiThZ]

Electrification of the HFR route is purely a greenwashing exercise.

Yep. That $2B would have bought a whole lot of track improvements. They could have easily saved electrification for 10-15 years down the road when electrification could have been paired with a fleet replacement and they had an idea of where the Charger fleet could be redeployed.

 

[cplchanb]

Yep. That $2B would have bought a whole lot of track improvements. They could have easily saved electrification for 10-15 years down the road when electrification could have been paired with a fleet replacement and they had an idea of where the Charger fleet could be redeployed.

well, regardless... its moving forward and hopefully if the govt changes we wont see a flip flop like the ontario hsr. we really need this whatever the direction is.

 

[reaperexpress]

well, regardless... its moving forward and hopefully if the govt changes we wont see a flip flop like the ontario hsr. we really need this whatever the direction is.

Definitely. While I think the electrification is wasteful as part of the initial buildout, I certainly won't be opposing the project on that basis. We also don't know the details of the project plan yet. It's possible that electrification will be included as a later stage that could easily be cut if a more budget-conscious government were elected.

 

[felix123]

Definitely. While I think the electrification is wasteful as part of the initial buildout, I certainly won't be opposing the project on that basis. We also don't know the details of the project plan yet. It's possible that electrification will be included as a later stage that could easily be cut if a more budget-conscious government were elected.

I'm looking forward to electrification for that satisfying acceleration.
It's also always bothered me that Canada now has no mainline electrification, and on the corridor the source is all hydro and nuclear, whereas Australia has tons of mainline electrification despite primarily powering their network with coal and gas. Finally, there will be some sanity in the world

 

[reaperexpress]

I'm looking forward to electrification for that satisfying acceleration.
It's also always bothered me that Canada now has no mainline electrification, and on the corridor the source is all hydro and nuclear, whereas Australia has tons of mainline electrification despite primarily powering their network with coal and gas. Finally, there will be some sanity in the world

Yes electric trains are awesome, and they cannot come soon enough on frequent-stop services such as GO and OC Transpo. It is insane how much kinetic energy is wasted each time a 12-car GO train brakes from 100 km/h to 0 to serve a station. Consider that such a train has a floor area of around 16,000 sq.ft. That's the size of a small apartment building, or 6 single-family houses.

And it is also insane how long it takes to accelerate back to 100 km/h again. I've been clocking the acceleration of EMU's here in the Netherlands, and they accelerate more than twice as fast as the fastest train I measured in Canada.
Here's the chart of the measurements I've taken so far. There is an obvious gap between EMUs in the Netherlands and the 3 measurements I had from Canada, which were of the UP Express Nippon Sharyo DMU, Ontario's only mainline DMU, and a 6-car GO MP40 consist, which is GO Transit's fastest configuration in normal service. 10 o 12 -car GO trains are much much slower than the 6-car MP40 shown here. The Dutch measurements were of Stadler GTW EMUs and Stadler FLIRT EMUs.

Eventually when I have enough observations I'll make a proper video presenting my findings, but here are some clips I've assembled so far. It seems that the fastest local trains in Canada take about 78 seconds to get to 100 km/h, and Dutch EMUs take about 37 seconds. Dutch trains reach 140 km/h faster than Canadian trains reach 80 km/h. Meanwhile Dutch trains can reach 80 km/h within the length of a platform.

Here's a couple observations of Stadler FLIRT EMUs. The first clip is a typical observation (37 s to 100 km/h, 55 sec to 140 km/h). The second clip is the fastest observation (30 s to 100 km/h, 52 sec to 140 km/h).

GO's fastest train, accelerating downhill, still takes double the time to reach 100 km/h:

That said, electric trains make less of a difference on services which mostly travel along at a constant speed, like VIA. The acceleration of electric locomotives is less impressive than EMUs, and intercity trains shouldn't need to brake very often so regenerative braking doesn't make as big a difference.

 

[Bordercollie]

well, regardless... its moving forward and hopefully if the govt changes we wont see a flip flop like the ontario hsr. we really need this whatever the direction is.

Doesn't look like Erin O'Toole has any chance of winning. He doesn't even have support within his own base.

But again anything can happen.

 

[kEiThZ]

its moving forward and hopefully if the govt changes we wont see a flip flop

The CPC transport critic has not said a single good thing about HFR on Twitter. Her first and only comment on the launch announcement on Twitter was to complain about the deficit and debt.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1412164429018386441

Beyond this, her entire focus seems to be on promoting the aviation sector. To the point of insinuating that Liberal border closures have been too much. And promoting pipelines of course. Just go through her account.

I don't think anybody should assume this project survives a change of government. Also, given the heavily rural base and the end of Greyhound in Canada, they have just the excuse they need to redirect funds. It also lines up with the rhetoric about how the Prairie provinces are getting a bad deal from Confederation.

The simple reality is that the Conservatives know they could cancel HFR with zero political consequences. So why would they not?

 

[kEiThZ]

Doesn't look like Erin O'Toole has any chance of winning. He doesn't even have support within his own base.

But again anything can happen.

People said the same thing about Trudeau in 2015. Never assume.

 

[cplchanb]

The CPC transport critic has not said a single good thing about HFR on Twitter. Her first and only comment on the launch announcement on Twitter was to complain about the deficit and debt.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1412164429018386441

Beyond this, her entire focus seems to be on promoting the aviation sector. To the point of insinuating that Liberal border closures have been too much. And promoting pipelines of course. Just go through her account.

I don't think anybody should assume this project survives a change of government. Also, given the heavily rural base and the end of Greyhound in Canada, they have just the excuse they need to redirect funds. It also lines up with the rhetoric about how the Prairie provinces are getting a bad deal from Confederation.

The simple reality is that the Conservatives know they could cancel HFR with zero political consequences. So why would they not?

And this is why via is floundering as a crown Corp. Their funding and projects are at the whim of current govt. I really think that if the corridor can sustain themselves and can be propped up for the first few years they should privatize and get off this hostage train

 

[EnviroTO]

Electrification of the HFR route is purely a greenwashing exercise.

True. The greatest value of electrification comes from points of acceleration and deceleration multiplied by the number of trains using it. Very little value is gained by electrifying a segment used infrequently where a train is maintaining a constant speed. They would be better off getting some kind of hybrid or train with greater battery capacity and only electrify the places where there is obvious benefit.