VIA Rail

[crs1026]

^I had a copy of the old CN Executive Class brochure, but it seems to be hiding!

I will see if I can find the exact date in old timetables. iirc one or two of the ex-Milwaukee tail end sleeper-lounges were also used on occasion.

Discussion has moved on, but just to close the loop - the premium CN service was called the "Executive Club Car".

Canadian Rail Issue 201 (July-August 1968) indicates the introduction of "Executive Club Cars" on the Rapido as of the 1968 Spring/Summer timetable. I am inferring that the two B-cars were being used as of this date. Nothing can be found in CN's public timetable for that period.

Canadian Rail Issue 208 (March 1969) states the service began using Skyview cars on Jan 13/69

Canadian Rail Issue 210 (May 1969) reports the service in the past tense, which fits with the premise that the service was suspended for the summer.

From an article about the ex-Milwaukee Skyview cars by Doug Smith in Canadian Rail Passenger Yearbook, 1995 edition:

"These cars were deployed on the Montreal-Toronto route when mechanical woes led to the withdrawal of the Turbo trains early in 1969. As a replacement for the Turbo trains, CN restored the afternoon Rapido effective January 13th. CN's innovative passenger department billed the Skyviews as 'Executive Club Cars'. Accommodation could be secured in the eight bedrooms for $14 per passenger or twice the charge for a club car seat. The glamorous lounge was available for all first class passengers. The cars operated daily except Saturdays from January 13th to May 31st and from September 30th to December 1st when, due to the limited demand for the private rooms, the cars were withdrawn. ...

"As business travel in the Montreal-Toronto Rapidos decreased during the summer months, CN redeployed the cars on its Jasper-Prince Rupert train from mid June to mid September."

- Paul

 

[micheal_can]

Many tout how HFR will cause the Corridor services to operate at a break even or a profit. If this is the case, what should Via do with the extra government money?

 

[Urban Sky]

Assuming HFR is approved, or is this a hint about that?

I’m already assuming that HFR will get approved, just as seems to be the mood at VIA HQ, but I can’t say to which degree this feeling is based on actual signals from the government or merely the notion that if this plan doesn’t get approved, then there just is nothing which could ever make the government and its bureaucrats approve the creation of a dedicated passenger infrastructure...

Many tout how HFR will cause the Corridor services to operate at a break even or a profit. If this is the case, what should Via do with the extra government money?

First, the Corridor already recovers more than 130% of its variable costs (how the Annual Report allocates the overheads - like my own salary - remains an accounting exercise which doesn’t change that the Corridor operations already decrease rather than increase VIA’s subsidy need today).

Second, it’s striking that certain people here still seem to believe that VIA’s operational subsidy is a fixed amount rather than the amount by which operating expenses exceed revenues. Actually, it has already been explained to him so many times, yet he keeps suggesting that it might be possible to re-allocate it towards his daydreams of daily passenger trains in Western Canada, so please don’t get him excited...

 

[kEiThZ]

The question is, when they do use intercity rail, would they typically pay a bit more to make it a more enjoyable experience (if there was perceived value for money) or would they typically buy the cheapest economy ticket?

I would imagine most would buy the cheapest ticket. And this really isn't unusual. It's the case for most rail systems. The less price sensitive customers are usually business travelers.

 

[kEiThZ]

Many tout how HFR will cause the Corridor services to operate at a break even or a profit. If this is the case, what should Via do with the extra government money?

It's not going to be a big amount in annual savings. So I would argue that priorities should be improving their customer service platforms and stations. They should probably start the planning for an HFR extension to the West and maybe do a serious study of HFR type service for Calgary-Edmonton. Let's not forget that, if HFR is approved in 2020, it'll have come after 7+ years of lobbying and studying. Let's hope that HFR can at least be extended to Kitchener and London by 2030.

Planning, studies and small station improvement projects can be done with $10-20 million per year. The next big capital item has to be refurbishment of the non-Corridor fleet. And that's probably a billion dollars that governments will be reluctant to send abroad in a recession (say if Siemens wins again).

 

[roger1818]

I’m already assuming that HFR will get approved, just as seems to be the mood at VIA HQ, but I can’t say to which degree this feeling is based on actual signals from the government or merely the notion that if this plan doesn’t get approved, then there just is nothing which could ever make the government and its bureaucrats approve the creation of a dedicated passenger infrastructure...

Fair.

First, the Corridor already recovers more than 130% of its variable costs (how the Annual Report allocates the overheads - like my own salary - remains an accounting exercise which doesn’t change that the Corridor operations already decrease rather than increase VIA’s subsidy need today).

Second, it’s striking that certain people here still seem to believe that VIA’s operational subsidy is a fixed amount rather than the amount by which operating expenses exceed revenues. Actually, it has already been explained to him so many times, yet he keeps suggesting that it might be possible to re-allocate it towards his daydreams of daily passenger trains in Western Canada, so please don’t get him excited...

Of course the person you were replying to has not made it a secret that he has blocked you, so he won't hear the facts.

 

[roger1818]

It would be nice if VIA was given extra money that it could use (or save towards) infrastructure. This could be upgrading or replacing existing infrastructure (including their fleet) or buying ROWs of value to them when they become available. Currently they are so shoestrung that every time they want to buy anything, they have to go back to the government and ask for more money and justify how every penny will be spent.

 

[crs1026]

The amount of money generated is not so important as the difference in attitude that will prevail once the reality of running in the black is accepted by pubic and by Bay Street. Especially since I assume that as a CIB funded business, HFR will be servicing its debt. It puts proposals to go further with HFR or even HSR in a whole different light. And it muzzles critics (who probably should have fallen out of influence long ago, but life is seldom rational or fair).

Presumably VIA’s Board will look at any retained earnings and consider whether to reinvest in the business, or pay a dividend to its shareholder... as any Board does. I doubt Ottawa looks on VIA the way, say, Queens Park looks on the LCBO.... ie VIa isn’t a cash cow. But VIA’s value as a government asset will change immesurably.

PS - I trust the appointment of the new Deputy Minister for Finance is a good sign for HFR also.

- Paul

 

[crs1026]

^Thinking about this a touch further, once VIA has a business running in the black, the question of appropriate debt leverage will take more profile.

It’s not much different than a young couple scraping together enough cash to buy their first home. Sure, by borrowing from parents etc it may be possible to secure a mortgage on a very small amount of equity. But hiw much debt is it wise to carry? When that young couple gets this year’s tax return, are they able to take a vacation.... or should they be using the money to pay down their mortgage?

I suspect VIA will want to boost its equity before using HFR‘s earning power to go looking for more debt.

- Paul

 

[Allandale25]

The amount of money generated is not so important as the difference in attitude that will prevail once the reality of running in the black is accepted by pubic and by Bay Street. Especially since I assume that as a CIB funded business, HFR will be servicing its debt. It puts proposals to go further with HFR or even HSR in a whole different light. And it muzzles critics (who probably should have fallen out of influence long ago, but life is seldom rational or fair).

Presumably VIA’s Board will look at any retained earnings and consider whether to reinvest in the business, or pay a dividend to its shareholder... as any Board does. I doubt Ottawa looks on VIA the way, say, Queens Park looks on the LCBO.... ie VIa isn’t a cash cow. But VIA’s value as a government asset will change immesurably.

PS - I trust the appointment of the new Deputy Minister for Finance is a good sign for HFR also.

- Paul

Sorry, can you remind me how the new Deputy Mini for Finance could be helpful for HFR?

 

[crs1026]

Sabia was the Caisse CEO who put together the REM deal, and was then CEO of the CIB. If anybody knows what HFR is about, and understands the role of government in funding infrastructure, it’s him.

Opinion: Michael Sabia’s infrastructure vision: Build it and they will come

Canada’s new deputy finance minister has a history of insisting that major projects stimulate growth by creating a virtuous circle of economic activity around them

www.theglobeandmail.com

- Paul

 

[Northern Light]

Sorry, can you remind me how the new Deputy Mini for Finance could be helpful for HFR?

This article has some clues:

Michael Sabia's sure going to do something - Macleans.ca

Paul Wells: The new DM of Finance intends to do great things. The Prime Minister intends for him to do great things. Now, will they actually happen?

www.macleans.ca

From same, a look at his CV:

He’s had four big jobs in his life, which is three or four more than most people get. He basically spent the ’80s in the public service, the ’90s at CN Rail, the ’00s at BCE and the ’10s running the Caisse de dépôt.

He's also a key architect of the Infrastructure Bank (and its most recent chair) ; its chief client as head of the Caisse, pushing the REM project in Montreal.

Further, he's a proponent of getting more of its money out the door, as per this article:

Infrastructure bank to invest $10 billion in priority areas for pandemic recovery

OTTAWA - The Liberal government is promising to finally spend $10 billion that has sat in the accounts of its infrastructure financing agency for year...

www.thestar.com

 

[kEiThZ]

^Thinking about this a touch further, once VIA has a business running in the black, the question of appropriate debt leverage will take more profile.

It’s not much different than a young couple scraping together enough cash to buy their first home. Sure, by borrowing from parents etc it may be possible to secure a mortgage on a very small amount of equity. But hiw much debt is it wise to carry? When that young couple gets this year’s tax return, are they able to take a vacation.... or should they be using the money to pay down their mortgage?

I suspect VIA will want to boost its equity before using HFR‘s earning power to go looking for more debt.

- Paul

They are borrowing to build HFR (theoretically). So they'll be leveraged from day one. The only question is how much profitable operation of HFR will allow for expansion of that borrowing. Hopefully, enough to pay for a second phase of extension (Union-Pearson-Kitcener-London). Beyond that, the decisions are probably going to be much more financially challenging.

 

[kEiThZ]

Sabia was the Caisse CEO who put together the REM deal, and was then CEO of the CIB. If anybody knows what HFR is about, and understands the role of government in funding infrastructure, it’s him.

Opinion: Michael Sabia’s infrastructure vision: Build it and they will come

Canada’s new deputy finance minister has a history of insisting that major projects stimulate growth by creating a virtuous circle of economic activity around them

www.theglobeandmail.com

- Paul

Yep. This is probably the closest VIA has come to truly having an ally in the upper ranks of the bureaucracy. The only question is now what can be done before the the inevitable election and whether both HFR and the CIB survive an election.

 

[SaugeenJunction]

I know we previously had some questions about how closely Metrolinx and VIA were coordinating on infrastructure planning for HFR, and this answer on Metrolinx Engage seems to clarify that they’re talking, which is good.