VIA Rail

[littlewill1166]

The federal government cancelled VIA’s morning trip to Toronto and afternoon return to Niagara Falls later that year, which were the only trains which required its crews to layover over night in Niagara Falls. I can assure you that VIA doesn’t have crews which pick up their train in the morning, hand it over before noon to their American counterparts and then sit around in Niagara Falls for 30 hours before taking over the return train in the late afternoon...

Thanks for clearing that up, I completely forgot about that! I was also under the impression that the crews might time-out (fatigue) since the manual indicted a reporting time of 6 am (I normally see the Maple Leaf backing out of the TMC when I'm on 71 in the morning). The train also doesn't get back to the yard until 9pm. That's an 18-hour work day. Do the yard crews deadhead the train to Toronto Union now allowing a reduction in duty time for the engineer's going to Niagara?

 

[littlewill1166]

I saw a train back on Nov 26 in NF coming across the border and no crew change over took place.

Honestly I'm not sure, maybe someone with an updated run manual can shed some light on this @Urban Sky I found a copy on the locomotive engineer's website last year, and posted it here. Someone probably reported it and it got taken down.

 

[Urban Sky]

Honestly I'm not sure, maybe someone with an updated run manual can shed some light on this @Urban Sky I found a copy on the locomotive engineer's website last year, and posted it here. Someone probably reported it and it got taken down.

I don't know on which side of the border the crews change, but I assume that changing the crews prior to the border helps speed up border checks, as the LEs on the train are entering their own country and have already cleared the border checks prior to going on duty.

Thanks for clearing that up, I completely forgot about that! I was also under the impression that the crews might time-out (fatigue) since the manual indicted a reporting time of 6 am (I normally see the Maple Leaf backing out of the TMC when I'm on 71 in the morning). The train also doesn't get back to the yard until 9pm. That's an 18-hour work day. Do the yard crews deadhead the train to Toronto Union now allowing a reduction in duty time for the engineer's going to Niagara?

First of all, 6am to 9pm (i.e. 06:00-21:00) is 15 hours, not 18, but let's assume that the LE goes on duty at Toronto Maintenance Center (TMC) at 06:00 (as you recall), takes control of the Amtrak equipment and backs it up to Union Station for a 08:20 departure. The train arrives on-time at 10:16 in Niagara Falls/ON and the crew goes off-duty at 10:30 after the Amtrak crew has taken control of the train. That's 4.5 hours on-duty. Then, the crew goes and rests somewhere in Niagara Falls before taking a Taxi across the border to report for duty at 16:00, to take control of the train as soon the train arrives in Niagara Falls/NY., for a departure across the border at 16:26, where the border checks take place in Niagara Falls/ON before the train departs on-time at 17:45. Then, the train arrives on-time at 19:41 at Union Station and the crews back the equipment to Toronto Maintenance Center, where it hands over the train to the maintenance crews before going off-duty at 21:00 (as you suggested). That would be another 5 hours on-duty, thus a total of 9.5 hours on duty during a period of 15 hours, with a break of 5.5 hours in-between. This is called a "split shift" and the only reason why Commuter Rail services can deploy their crews somewhat efficiently...

 

[littlewill1166]

First of all, 6am to 9pm (i.e. 06:00-21:00) is 15 hours, not 18, but let's assume that the LE goes on duty at Toronto Maintenance Center (TMC) at 06:00 (as you recall), takes control of the Amtrak equipment and backs it up to Union Station for a 08:20 departure. The train arrives on-time at 10:16 in Niagara Falls/ON and the crew goes off-duty at 10:30 after the Amtrak crew has taken control of the train. That's 4.5 hours on-duty. Then, the crew goes and rests somewhere in Niagara Falls before taking a Taxi across the border to report for duty at 16:00, to take control of the train as soon the train arrives in Niagara Falls/NY., for a departure across the border at 16:26, where the border checks take place in Niagara Falls/ON before the train departs on-time at 17:45. Then, the train arrives on-time at 19:41 at Union Station and the crews back the equipment to Toronto Maintenance Center, where it hands over the train to the maintenance crews before going off-duty at 21:00 (as you suggested). That would be another 5 hours on-duty, thus a total of 9.5 hours on duty during a period of 15 hours, with a break of 5.5 hours in-between. This is called a "split shift" and the only reason why Commuter Rail services can deploy their crews somewhat efficiently...

Do you know if delays count towards duty time? Based on 9.5 hours, a new crew is needed after a cumulative 2.5 hours of delay (which I've seen, but it's rare).
Also, I did some digging around, and you're right: https://web.archive.org/web/2018091...ads/6-Toronto-South-Schedules-Spring-2018.pdf

I even found a cycling plan: https://web.archive.org/web/20180919023455/http://division747.ca/wp-content/uploads/180528.pdf

 

[Urban Sky]

Do you know if delays count towards duty time? Based on 9.5 hours, a new crew is needed after a cumulative 2.5 hours of delay (which I've seen, but it's rare).

You should find all your answers below:

Work/Rest Rules for Railway Operating Employees

[...]

5.1 Maximum Duty Times

1. 5.1.1 a) The maximum continuous on-duty time for a single tour of duty operating in any class of service, is 12 hours, except work train service for which the maximum duty time is 16 hours. Where a tour of duty is designated as a split shift, as in the case of commuter service, the combined on-duty time for the two on-duty periods cannot exceed 12 hours.
2. b) When calculating on-duty time as outlined above, arbitrary time or allowances are not to be included. Preparatory and final times each shall not exceed 15 minutes.

5.1.2 Ticket splitting in order to circumvent compliance with subsection 5.1.1 is prohibited.

5.1.3 The maximum combined on-duty time for more than one tour of duty, operating in any class of service, cannot exceed 18 hours between ‘resets' as outlined in subsection 5.1.4.

5.1.4 The following is required to 'reset' the calculation of combined on-duty time to zero:

1. a) at the home terminal, 8 continuous hours off-duty time, ‘inclusive' of call time, when entering into yard service or;
2. b) at the home terminal, 8 continuous hours off-duty time, ‘exclusive' of call time if applicable, when entering into road service or;
3. c) at other than the home terminal, 6 continuous hours off-duty, ‘exclusive' of call time if applicable.

https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/railsafety/rules-tco140-364.htm

 

[littlewill1166]

You should find all your answers below:

https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/railsafety/rules-tco140-364.htm

Yeah, I saw this already and I was left with the impression that 97-98 were a single tour of duty which means that a fresh crew would be needed. Yet, I've neither seen nor heard of a crew timing out mid-trip.

 

[Urban Sky]

Yeah, I saw this already and I was left with the impression that 97-98 were a single tour of duty which means that a fresh crew would be needed. Yet, I've neither seen nor heard of a crew timing out mid-trip.

What’s so difficult to understand about “Where a tour of duty is designated as a split shift, as in the case of commuter service, the combined on-duty time for the two on-duty periods cannot exceed 12 hours”?

See also:

4. Definitions

[...]

On-Duty Time" means the total elapsed time from when an operating employee goes on-duty until the time when an employee goes off-duty but does not include preparatory time, final time, travel allowances and other arbitrary or allowance payments.

[...]

"Shift or Tour of Duty" means a single continuous period on-duty in any class of service, except split shifts, which are comprised of distinct duty periods.

 

[littlewill1166]

What’s so difficult to understand about “Where a tour of duty is designated as a split shift, as in the case of commuter service, the combined on-duty time for the two on-duty periods cannot exceed 12 hours”?

See also:

I understand it, it's just that there have been times when I've been on that train where there was both a customs delay and signal issues causing the train to be delayed for over 2.5 hours en-route, yet the train just kept on going and the SM never said anything about the crew timing out and that a new crew would be required.

 

[Urban Sky]

I understand it, it's just that there have been times when I've been on that train where there was both a customs delay and signal issues causing the train to be delayed for over 2.5 hours en-route, yet the train just kept on going and the SM never said anything about the crew timing out and that a new crew would be required.

I have received confirmation from a friend (outside from VIA) that crews change on the Canadian side in both directions, which has the advantage that none of VIA's employees has to be qualified and authorized to work across the border, while Amtrak can use the same crews working into Canada on the Adirondack (which operates with all-American equipment and crews right into Montreal) to work up to Niagara Falls/ON. If we assume that the crews go on-duty again one full hour prior to the scheduled departure time (thus 16:45 for 17:45), then the second shift would be 4:15 hours for a combined total of 8:45 hours. That means that there would be a buffer of 3:15 hours, which should accommodate almost all thinkable scenarios for delays. Nevertheless, if a crew reaches Union Station close to its 12 hour-limit, the train will of course have to be brought to TMC by a different crew...

 

[littlewill1166]

Oh no... https://www.viarail.ca/en/travel-advisory-information

 

[cplchanb]

Oh no... https://www.viarail.ca/en/travel-advisory-information

they found the perfect excuse to cut back on passenger food amenities. This will be the new norm in via travel. peanuts for the muggles, a soggy sandwich for business

 

[Urban Sky]

they found the perfect excuse to cut back on passenger food amenities. This will be the new norm in via travel. peanuts for the muggles, a soggy sandwich for business

I hate to say this, but you have zero insight into why decisions are made at the moment. Suffice it to say that unlike the passengers, the on-train staff has no choice but to expose themselves to a crowd of people in a confined space - at a time where the government strongly advises against doing so. I’m sorry for you if you work for an employer who doesn’t put the safety of its employees above the convenience of its customers (not even in these exceptional times), but I am relieved to work for one which does...

 

[cplchanb]

I hate to say this, but you have zero insight into why decisions are made at the moment. Suffice it to say that unlike the passengers, the on-train staff has no choice but to expose themselves to a crowd of people in a confined space - at a time where the government strongly advises against doing so. I’m sorry for you if you work for an employer who doesn’t put the safety of its employees above the convenience of its customers, even in these exceptional times, but I am relieved to work for one which does...

How about the long term? While for now it remains a valid reason to cut back what about after the situation subsides? Will they resume normal meal service or will they just stick with the status quo and hope that the passengers will have gotten used to the norm? Its just like air travel. They used to offer hot meals for cross canada flights but have had to cut back in part due to fuel price surges. Now that fuel has dropped and more efficient planes are used they still just give us cheap peanuts and 1 drink.

 

[Urban Sky]

How about the long term? While for now it remains a valid reason to cut back what about after the situation subsides? Will they resume normal meal service or will they just stick with the status quo and hope that the passengers will have gotten used to the norm? Its just like air travel. They used to offer hot meals for cross canada flights but have had to cut back in part due to fuel price surges. Now that fuel has dropped and more efficient planes are used they still havent restored meals.

Long-term decisions are reserved for normal times, crisis times only allow for short-term or ad-hoc decisions.

Also, recall that airplanes have a very strong advantage over other modes: shorter travel times. VIA’s current services have no such inherent advantage and therefore need to excel on the only competitive advantage it can create by itself: service...

 

[crs1026]

^Right now all public-facing businesses are in a reactive mode and their solutions will be temporary and perhaps unsustainable. I do expect changes in the longer term, but what they will be remains to be seen. Hopefully VIA will be innovative, but VIA will certainly be caught up in what the rest of the travel industry decides must be changed. We don't have that consensus yet.

One example I would predict, which VIA will be only a small player in, is a shift away from touch screens for self serve applications. Some other technology (fingers pointing in the air? voice activated commands? RFID passports and government ID that don't have to be opened or examined?) will emerge and become the norm.

Similarly, meal service generally will shift somehow... more tongs, packages that can be handled without human contact, order by wifi by seat number to minimise face to face interaction. Who knows yet? VIA can't expect to figure this out in isolation.

I expect someone somewhere is looking at planes, trains, and transit vehicles with an eye to sanitation. We may see a much more aggressive attitude towards washroom cleanliness. Toilet stall doors that self-open, but only after you've washed your hands? Cleaning staff who wipe down much more of the touchable surfaces at much more frequent intervals?

I'm just blue-skying, but after even a few days of attempting to social distance, things that one took as normal stand out as ridiculously unsanitary.

Welcome to the new normal.

- Paul