VIA Rail

[SunriseChampion]

Could you ever outrun Air Canada?

?

I don't know....maybe if some random stranger on an internet message board dares me to.

Also, probably not in my current ride which, while a racing version of one (paddle shifters, RWD, turbo, chippable to something like 250hp) is still just a van.
My model has a speed limiter at 163kph as well. No speed limiters on an Airbus.

 

[robmausser]

Drives that length can vary a lot based on driver behavior, and time of day. One driver that does the speed limit and takes multiple stops may take 6 hours, while another who drives 120 and makes only one quick stop for gas and a meal might take 5. Driving 120 vs 100 alone will cut about 45 minutes off the drive.

If you are a quick driver and do the drive in light traffic, you can cover absolutely huge distances very quickly in a car. Leaving Toronto at, say 10pm on a Tuesday, and drive 120-125? You'll probably be in Montreal in about 4.5 hours.

I drive 125 and ive never made it to Montreal under 5.5h

Do you pee in a cup and eat while driving and have gas tanks on your car and leave at 3am? I dont get how you think its possible in 4.5 hours.

 

[micheal_can]

?

I don't know....maybe if some random stranger on an internet message board dares me to.

Also, probably not in my current ride which, while a racing version of one (paddle shifters, RWD, turbo, chippable to something like 250hp) is still just a van.
My model has a speed limiter at 163kph as well. No speed limiters on an Airbus.

Can we finally admit that the train is not just about being the fastest route?

 

[SunriseChampion]

Can we finally admit that the train is not just about being the fastest route?

I'm pretty sure I did in my original speed demon post.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I drive 125 and ive never made it to Montreal under 5.5h

Do you pee in a cup and eat while driving and have gas tanks on your car and leave at 3am? I dont get how you think its possible in 4.5 hours.

Can you make a 4.5 hour drive without peeing? It’s not that hard without going to those extremes. You have to stop for gas anyway, cup or not.

Obviously 4.5 hours isn’t the average, more of an extreme. The average is probably closer to 5.5hrs, I was just stating that a 5 hour travel time isn’t out of this world.

The fastest I’ve done is Saint John NB to Toronto in 12:00, with 2 border crossings, and using the new bypass around Montreal, maybe 4-5 years ago. Google maps claims that’s over 13.5 hours, and while It was speeding, it wasn’t danger territory. That trip in particular was a Boxing Day 5am departure and an arrival in Toronto at 5pm. Basically 0 traffic anywhere prior to Sherbrooke, about halfway through the drive, and 0 actual volume the whole way. I can assure you the Montreal-Toronto portion was less than 6 hours. That trip was probably closer to 4.5 hours, but the average is probably 5.5. Last time I did the trip was by train, but before that was a drive to QC which took 8 hours, 5.5 was Toronto-Montreal. That was the day after New Years 2018 too, so traffic from Kingston all the way to Toronto was pretty slow too.

My father loves to tell the story of a 3.5 hour drive from Montreal to Pickering in the early 80’s, prior to the street racing laws. He claims his Ford compact was doing over the 160km/h limit the speedometer maxed out at for most of the distance.. no way of knowing if he was just being a dumb kid or is elaborating though.

A few weeks ago I covered Lansing, Michigan - Toronto in 4.5 hours - but I was taking advantage of the 75mph (120km/h) speed limits in Michigan and the new 110km/h limit on the 402 along with a Nexus Pass. The travel distance overall is pretty similar to a trip to Montreal though, and illustrates how a 4.5hr trip would be possible.

 

[micheal_can]

Ok, let's switch gears..... Try to get there the fastest in a snowfall warning.... Then, you might beat Air Canada.

 

[crs1026]

?

I don't know....maybe if some random stranger on an internet message board dares me to.

I don’t dare you to drive anywhere, but I do dare you to crosspost your comments to the Vision Zero thread. ;-)

I once crossed Iowa, Quad Cities to Council Bluffs, with pit stop, at an average speed of 73.1 mph, but that was mostly by drafting behind a truly reckless trucker who gave me assurance of radar ‘shade’. For long distance trips, I generally assume 90km/h overall with stops included. As previously noted, if you are reckoning downtown Toronto to downtown Montreal, the congestion at the ends will destroy your travel time.

In the context of Calgary to Edmonton, let’s not presume that the potential ridership is speed-driven and foolish. I would say 100 km/h is a good benchmark. One can do that drive without any pit stops.

- Paul

 

[dowlingm]

The problem with high frequency apart from equipment and crews is that if you don’t own the infrastructure then you either need to pay someone else to expand theirs and risk not getting value for money (CN Kingston) or buy it - an option which was available on the Alexandria Sub but wouldn’t be on (for example) the CP Edmonton-Calgary route. There’s also building new but the costs of new alignments seems to be prohibitive these days.

 

[crs1026]

The problem with high frequency apart from equipment and crews is that if you don’t own the infrastructure then you either need to pay someone else to expand theirs and risk not getting value for money (CN Kingston) or buy it - an option which was available on the Alexandria Sub but wouldn’t be on (for example) the CP Edmonton-Calgary route. There’s also building new but the costs of new alignments seems to be prohibitive these days.

I don’t argue your point, but this is where the law could assist shared use of corridors with the underlying premise being that the new passenger service must not undercut the freight operator’s current or future operations.

There’s a big difference between “old VIA” turning up and saying, hey, we’d like to use your spare capacity to run a couple of Dayliners per day each way, and “new VIA” turning up with $1B in capital and saying, OK, what’s a fair split of the risks and the rewards, and how do we proceed?

Even the existing law does not really prevent that, but it has not really been tested and nobody wants to ask a question when they fear what the answer might be. I do think Canada could nudge that along without anyone being unjustly impacted.

- Paul

 

[felix123]

And if I do it in 4, will you tell the OPP?


Back before the stupid "racing" law nonsense, when I lived in Ottawa, the trips were rather quick by today's "racing" law standards. Though, even at the speeds I cruise at these days, it sure as hell isn't taking me 5 hours.

Anyway, I prefer the train. Less fun, but less stress with regards for the speed fascism controls.

Speed fascism controls? It's selfish drivers such as yourself who ruin the roads for the rest of us. But I'm sure you consider yourself to be a "very good driver", right?

 

[SunriseChampion]

Speed fascism controls? It's selfish drivers such as yourself who ruin the roads for the rest of us. But I'm sure you consider yourself to be a "very good driver", right?

Indeed I am....well, quite decent anyway, not sure I'd do well at gymkhana.

Pray tell, how does driving according to highway design, road conditions, and car design/capability ruin the roads exactly?

You know who actually ruins the roads?
Drivers who are spatially inept, not confident, have been trained by "defensive" driving schools of inability, aren't aware of their surroundings, don't know how to use their engine/transmission to drive and rely on a safety back stop aka brakes to do it for them, etc.

A closed freeway is designed for speed, a residential street is not and I'm afraid you're making seriously foolish assumptions about my driving.

I'm not one of those spatially inept wankers who drive 110kph on the highway and then continue at 90kph once off. Not least because I never drive at 110 on a highway.

Which reminds me, @crs1026, I don't see the point of cross-posting to a Vision Zero thread as highway driving has nothing to do with Vision Zero.
An urban road isn't the same as a closed freeway. Driving at 180kph on a closed freeway is perfectly legitimate (poorly trained Canadian drivers/pylons notwithstanding); driving, say 80kph on an urban road is not.

I'm perfectly fine moving at 40kph in town, thank you.


Anyway, the train to Ottawa/Montréal is lovely and less stressful than the maze of idiot left laners who don't know what passing is, tired truckers, and speed traps.

 

[Streety McCarface]

Indeed I am....well, quite decent anyway, not sure I'd do well at gymkhana.

Pray tell, how does driving according to highway design, road conditions, and car design/capability ruin the roads exactly?

You know who actually ruins the roads?
Drivers who are spatially inept, not confident, have been trained by "defensive" driving schools of inability, aren't aware of their surroundings, don't know how to use their engine/transmission to drive and rely on a safety back stop aka brakes to do it for them, etc.

A closed freeway is designed for speed, a residential street is not and I'm afraid you're making seriously foolish assumptions about my driving.

I'm not one of those spatially inept wankers who drive 110kph on the highway and then continue at 90kph once off. Not least because I never drive at 110 on a highway.

Which reminds me, @crs1026, I don't see the point of cross-posting to a Vision Zero thread as highway driving has nothing to do with Vision Zero.
An urban road isn't the same as a closed freeway. Driving at 180kph on a closed freeway is perfectly legitimate (poorly trained Canadian drivers/pylons notwithstanding); driving, say 80kph on an urban road is not.

I'm perfectly fine moving at 40kph in town, thank you.


Anyway, the train to Ottawa/Montréal is lovely and less stressful than the maze of idiot left laners who don't know what passing is, tired truckers, and speed traps.

While I agree with a lot of what you said, driving like this sets a dangerous precedent.

Transportation engineers do not design roads, including freeways for worst-case scenarios, especially in inclement weather. They'll probably design for the coefficient of friction associated with small snow loads instead of the slush, rain, or ice coefficient of frictions (which are much lower). The point is that roads, freeways included, still need to be taken seriously, and it's not even safe to drive at the speed limit in a lot of weather conditions.

 

[felix123]

Indeed I am....well, quite decent anyway, not sure I'd do well at gymkhana.

Pray tell, how does driving according to highway design, road conditions, and car design/capability ruin the roads exactly?

You know who actually ruins the roads?
Drivers who are spatially inept, not confident, have been trained by "defensive" driving schools of inability, aren't aware of their surroundings, don't know how to use their engine/transmission to drive and rely on a safety back stop aka brakes to do it for them, etc.

A closed freeway is designed for speed, a residential street is not and I'm afraid you're making seriously foolish assumptions about my driving.

I'm not one of those spatially inept wankers who drive 110kph on the highway and then continue at 90kph once off. Not least because I never drive at 110 on a highway.

Which reminds me, @crs1026, I don't see the point of cross-posting to a Vision Zero thread as highway driving has nothing to do with Vision Zero.
An urban road isn't the same as a closed freeway. Driving at 180kph on a closed freeway is perfectly legitimate (poorly trained Canadian drivers/pylons notwithstanding); driving, say 80kph on an urban road is not.

I'm perfectly fine moving at 40kph in town, thank you.


Anyway, the train to Ottawa/Montréal is lovely and less stressful than the maze of idiot left laners who don't know what passing is, tired truckers, and speed traps.

Ok boomer, driving at 180 km/h on a Canadian freeway is definitely not acceptable. Even the 400—series highways were designed for a maximum speed 50 km/h slower than such a speed,and you're endangering the lives of the supposedly "poorly-trained Canadian drivers" whom you disdain. Have you seen Québec's current graduated licensing system? I doubt you'd find a more stringent training curriculum elsewhere.

I'll agree with you that the train between Toronto, Montréal and Ottawa is a much nicer experience than driving, full stop.

 

[crs1026]

^I’m not going to wade into the driving thing, other than to observe that these days there’s a lot less social acceptance for pushing the envelope. Our highways are probably fine in good weather at 120, so perhaps they ought to be posted as such....but it’s likely that enforcement will remain around that speed.

The point for this discussion remains - even though the odd person.might actually achieve a faster drive between Toronto and Montreal, few people would plan a business meeting or pleasure date around that speed - partly because it’s not achievable reliably, and partly because the drive would leave the average motorist in need of recovery time anyways.

The comment that started this off was that a fairly slow train ride might be marketable. I’m still dubious, but there’s a zone where one can compete with driving without using the more leadfooted as the benchmark.

- Paul

 

[SunriseChampion]

What the hell is a boomer? Sounds made up.

Always drive according to road conditions.

I don't know anything about Quebec's licensing system but I sure as hell feel nothing but disdain for Ontario's joke of one. Is the Quebec system comparable to Finland's stringency?

Anyway, I've personally found it to be easier to travel to Ottawa by train than by car especially given that Ottawa transit uses the Presto system. Just hop off the train and I'm at my downtown hotel in, what, 20 minutes. Even if it may have taken me longer to get there.
Truth be told, you throw in an incident with the OPP and the time works out to be almost the same anyway. ? (I love the OPP, by the way....very professional and decent people).
I even prefer the train to flying there from Billy Bishop because that's just too fast...can't even enjoy my glass of wine.

Happy Sunday, folks.