VIA Rail

[Urban Sky]

Theres space on the Stouffville corridor for a 3rd track, especially with the Scarborough RT gone.... heck theres space for 4 tracks in that area now.

It would be entirely feasible to work in a MX corridor, rather than a CN or CP one. Its not like after spending 60 billion dollars they would just connect the HSR track to the existing Metrolinx track. LOL!

Heck, other than MX corridors theres not many other ways to get downtown...

I’m not worried about the part of the Stouffville Corridor which is South of crossing underneath the Belleville Sub, where Stoufville trains currently only stop at a single station (Kennedy), which would even be a plausible HxR stop location. However, you would need to overtake at least one (better: two or three) Stoufville trains north of the Belleville Sub and for each train you want to overtake, you’ll need an Express track which covers two neighboring stations and the line inbetween. I’d be very surprised if the current plans for expanding and electrifying the Stouffville Corridor make any such provisions for HxR…

 

[smallspy]

Theres space on the Stouffville corridor for a 3rd track, especially with the Scarborough RT gone.... heck theres space for 4 tracks in that area now.

No there isn't. The corridor is only wide enough for 2 tracks.

The SRT was built entirely outside of the now Metrolinx corridor. It could be purchased, but it only extends from Ellesmere to Eglinton, meaning that the stretches to the north (Ellesmere to north of the 401) and south (Eglinton to Scarborough Junction) would need to be resolved.

Plus, that also assumes that the TTC doesn't want to keep their corridor - which they do.

It would be entirely feasible to work in a MX corridor, rather than a CN or CP one. Its not like after spending 60 billion dollars they would just connect the HSR track to the existing Metrolinx track. LOL!

Anything is feasible with enough money. Which of the three is going to be the most amenable to any sort of sharing arrangement, however?

Heck, other than MX corridors theres not many other ways to get downtown...

There are no other ways to get downtown, short of tunneling on new alignments.

Dan

 

[CapitalSeven]

I hate/love to bring this up, but...

Wouldn't resurrecting the Missing Link as a federal-provincial project free up track all the way from Mississauga to Scarbourough and thereby facilitate GO Milton, GO Kitchener, VIA SW Ontario, and pseudo-VIA HwhateverR? This is not a new idea; we just need to start arguing about it again. I know the Big Link is dead, but so were $200 vote bribes until, I don't know, last week. If we're now openly talking about tens and twenties of billions, why not this? I think it would kill several birds with one stone, and electric rail through the middle of the GTA is a better use of mega-cash than the 401 fantasy tunnel of suburban love.

 

[crs1026]

I hate/love to bring this up, but...

Wouldn't resurrecting the Missing Link as a federal-provincial project free up track all the way from Mississauga to Scarbourough and thereby facilitate GO Milton, GO Kitchener, VIA SW Ontario, and pseudo-VIA HwhateverR? This is not a new idea; we just need to start arguing about it again. I know the Big Link is dead, but so were $200 vote bribes until, I don't know, last week. If we're now openly talking about tens and twenties of billions, why not this? I think it would kill several birds with one stone, and electric rail through the middle of the GTA is a better use of mega-cash than the 401 fantasy tunnel of suburban love.

It's entirely reasonable to ask if a new GO rail line along the 407 corridor (generally) could be built, and how useful would that be to our transit network.

Just leave CN and CP tracks and routing out of the discussion, and the design, as any use of the existing CN tracks by either GO or CPKC would impact greatly into their freight business and competitive positions, and that is a huge problem to try and solve.

- Paul

 

[nfitz]

Theres nothing delusional about coming into Toronto. Its possible to use one of the Metrolinx owned corridors, like the Stoufville line to come into Union.

The only issue is Montreal really.

Even if they could use Stouffville (which Smallspy is doubting), the Lakeshore East corridor is now constrained to four tracks between the Don and Pape, because of the Ontario Line. When it had a 6-track capacity before the Ontario Line was planned, one or two tracks for VIA was possible.

 

[SashaLemon]

Waning Liberal days are HSR proposal days.

I love the proposal. I hate that they are pitching it now, exactly as they are facing electoral catastrophe. No matter how much good work the HFR office has done and how serious the bidders are, this will be seen as nothing but an electioneering promise. And unfortunately that leaves a lot of room to cancel for the next government.

As for the argument that conservatives are different these days. That's true provincially. But Poilievre has been an absolute ideologue. So it's kinda hard to imagine this survives. Let alone in this current form.

I hate that this is such a big gamble. Like to have high speed rail in this country by the time I am middle aged relies entirely upon the Conservatives having a change of heart, or possibly playing the "we will do it because the Liberals failed to do it" card.
We really need electoral reform in this country, this is exactly the sort of policy lurch I am so sick of that is the result of FPTP.

 

[Urban Sky]

Even if they could use Stouffville (which Smallspy is doubting), the Lakeshore East corridor is now constrained to four tracks between the Don and Pape, because of the Ontario Line. When it had a 6-track capacity before the Ontario Line was planned, one or two tracks for VIA was possible.

Nobody said that VIA needs exclusive tracks, but four tracks should be sufficient to create dedicated Express tracks, assuming that there is no need to have all GO trains stop at Scarborough, Danfourth or East Harbour…

 

[nfitz]

Nobody said that VIA needs exclusive tracks, but four tracks should be sufficient to create dedicated Express tracks, assuming that there is no need to have all GO trains stop at Scarborough, Danfourth or East Harbour…

I believe the plan is for all trains to stop in East Harbour.

And if the frequent all-stopping Stouffville trains start stopping at Scarborough and Danforth again, then that could make express runs difficult (though GO is planning express runs, at least part of the day)

 

[smallspy]

Even if they could use Stouffville (which Smallspy is doubting), the Lakeshore East corridor is now constrained to four tracks between the Don and Pape, because of the Ontario Line. When it had a 6-track capacity before the Ontario Line was planned, one or two tracks for VIA was possible.

First off, it's not that I'm doubting that they do or don't want to use the Stouffville line. It's that there are realities that need to be taken into account.

But as a more final word, put me into the camp of those thinking that 4 tracks on the Lakeshore East line is enough, even for VIA.

VIA does not need dedicated tracks. At best, they will be operating a train every half-hour, and even that is optimistic. What needs to be done is to set up the 4 tracks in a logical arrangement for trains of similar stopping patterns to operate independently of the others.

2 tracks for local/all-stops (GO) trains. 2 tracks for express & VIA trains. And if they are really smart, the local tracks will be on the north side of the corridor, so that Stouffville Line trains won't need an expensive flyover/flyunder, nor would they have to cross over (and occupy) the entirety of the corridor.

That, in concert with an upgraded signalling system will be more than enough for the rest of the lifetime of anyone currently using this forum.

Dan

 

[Northern Light]

Even if they could use Stouffville (which Smallspy is doubting),

@smallspy is correct to doubt this........

But as a more final word, put me into the camp of those thinking that 4 tracks on the Lakeshore East line is enough, even for VIA.

If HSR does not use the trackage between Scarborough Junction and the USRC, (which I'm rather certain it will not), then VIA can be squeezed in, based on current or modestly improved service levels; providing, that GO doesn't substantially exceed published frequency projections.

VIA does not need dedicated tracks. At best, they will be operating a train every half-hour, and even that is optimistic. What needs to be done is to set up the 4 tracks in a logical arrangement for trains of similar stopping patterns to operate independently of the others.

I do think we need to clarify whether you're including HSR in that assumption. I will assume you are not; because I would come to a different number of train movements if HSR and VIA service to Kingston are being reported out as a consolidated number.

 

[Bordercollie]

Theres space on the Stouffville corridor for a 3rd track, especially with the Scarborough RT gone.... heck theres space for 4 tracks in that area now.

It would be entirely feasible to work in a MX corridor, rather than a CN or CP one. Its not like after spending 60 billion dollars they would just connect the HSR track to the existing Metrolinx track. LOL!

Heck, other than MX corridors theres not many other ways to get downtown...

The problem is that there is a building in the way where the Belleville Sub meets the Stouffville line. It would need to be expropriated.

 

[Urban Sky]

The problem is that there is a building in the way where the Belleville Sub meets the Stouffville line. It would need to be expropriated.

I’d be shocked if that were to be the most problematic expropriation related to HFR-TGF, especially in the preferred HSR variant…

 

[Bojaxs]

I hate/love to bring this up, but...

Wouldn't resurrecting the Missing Link as a federal-provincial project free up track all the way from Mississauga to Scarbourough and thereby facilitate GO Milton, GO Kitchener, VIA SW Ontario, and pseudo-VIA HwhateverR? This is not a new idea; we just need to start arguing about it again. I know the Big Link is dead, but so were $200 vote bribes until, I don't know, last week. If we're now openly talking about tens and twenties of billions, why not this? I think it would kill several birds with one stone, and electric rail through the middle of the GTA is a better use of mega-cash than the 401 fantasy tunnel of suburban love.

Check out my post on one of the last two pages the transit fantasy thread.

- 407 bypass for CN
- 413 bypass for CPKC

 

[micheal_can]

If all the freight traffic didn't have to pass through Toronto or along the lake shore, couldn't that have solve some headaches here? Had one or both CN and CP kept their routes through the Ottawa Valley, they could be routing fright that is not destined for anywhere near Toronto through there. I feel that is more of a missing link if we want to run more passenger trains along the lake shore at a low cost.

 

[Allandale25]

I realize this is a fast moving topic so apologies if this has already been posted here. Will delete when I get home to scroll back to see if this is already been posted. A friend sent this to me and says of this website says that they know who the consortium winner is:

So this report is saying that Cadence is the consortium that has won the VIA HFR-TGF (soon to be renamed Rapid Train rapide) procurement with an announcement to be made in mid November.

VIDÉO | Un projet de TGV entre Québec et Toronto bientôt lancé?

Le gouvernement fédéral serait prêt à aller de l'avant avec un projet de train à grande vitesse (TGV) entre Toronto et Québec.

www.noovo.info

(I believe it's dated October 29th)

Cadence members:
CDPQ Infra
AtkinsRéalis (formerly SNC-Lavalin)
Systra Canada
Keolis Canada
Air Canada
SNCF Voyageurs S.A.

More info: https://cadence.info/en

Keolis is owned 70% by SNCF and 30% by CDPQ.

AtkinsRéalis and Air Canada are based in Montréal

cc @Northern Light