VIA Rail: New Funding

[Hydrogen]

Due to constraints with the track, power supply and regulations, the Acela trains can do the entire trip from Washington to Boston in 6 hours and 36 minutes, which averages to 109 km/h. The fastest portion of the trip, from Washington to New York, is covered in 2 hours and 48 minutes, averaging a speed of 143 km/h.

I'd love to see true high-speed rail, but in the absence of that, a few more express trains at more convienent times, and I think that Via between Montreal-Toronto is a real competitor to flying.

Hey, I'd be willing to take 150 kph over what exists now! And I agree; while I'd like to see high-speed rail, more express service and the trimming of present travel times in the corridor would go a long way to improving things.

 

[unimaginative2]

The issue with VIA in the corridor right now is not as much one of travel time as one of frequency. I'm a huge supporter of real high speed rail in the corridor, but in the meantime we should have a lot more expresses. I've spoken to many people who make the Toronto-Montreal trip all the time, and they consider the 5pm express which takes a little over 4 hours to be acceptable, but the 5+ hour trips at other times of the day are a deal-breaker. There should be at least 4 expresses a day from Toronto to Montreal at an absolute minimum.

 

[Hydrogen]

To a significant degree, the only major stop between Montreal/Ottawa and Toronto is Kingston. More expresses could fit into the schedule easily.

 

[unimaginative2]

Kingston-Toronto is served by both Toronto-Ottawa and Toronto-Montreal trains. There's no reason for any additional trains to stop there, or any other intermediate stop. I also wish they could get the times back down to 3h59m like they had back in the 90s and earlier.

 

[Hydrogen]

That's what I was saying. More express trains over and above Kingston, but if need be, Kingston could an occasional stop, too.

 

[nfitz]

It takes years to negotiate adding an extra trip with CN, or increasing the speed.

Interesting that money for VIA flows so quickly, in a few weeks, yet money for Toronto takes years.

 

[unimaginative2]

Definitely, yeah. The problem is with Transport Canada regulations that prevent trains from operating over 160 km/h when level crossings are present. I personally think that's a pretty ridiculous rule, since whether you're going 160 or 180, it's not going to make too much of a difference to whoever's on the tracks.

 

[nfitz]

Definitely, yeah. The problem is with Transport Canada regulations that prevent trains from operating over 160 km/h when level crossings are present. I personally think that's a pretty ridiculous rule, since whether you're going 160 or 180, it's not going to make too much of a difference to whoever's on the tracks.

My understanding is that the reason that the level crossings are restricted to that speed, is simply because they are designed that way ... the censors are not far enough away to detect a train travelling at 180 km/hr soon enough, to close. I'm sure if the crossing were redesigned for faster speeds, you could get them accepted.

 

[ShonTron]

Or even easier, get rid of the level crossings. I wouldn't advocate that everywhere, but say Toronto-Bowmanville, there might be a grand total of 3 grade crossings. It's all about incrementalism. Between Belleville and Kingston, there's also very few grade crossings as well, so in certain areas, just get rid of them.

Another easy solution is replace mainline-to-mainline track switches to allow them to be used at high speeds. Also, at Cobourg, Belleville, Cornwall and Brockville, eliminate the mini central-platform and do what they did in London and Kingston and have a tunnel connection. The platform set-up requires through trains to pass at slow speeds. At Belleville and Lyn (near Brockville) give VIA their own dedicated tracks to by-pass the freight yeards. And improve signalling.

Incremental improvements could save 30 minutes Toronto-Montreal without spending much money and in a short period. After that, the big money, such as triple-tracking and even dedicated trackage in certain areas, would improve travel times. Then talk full dedicated tracks and/or electrification.

With $50 million, I could easily improve Toronto-Kitchener travel times by 20-30 minutes just with signal and track improvements. With $100 million, I could do the same for Toronto-Montreal/Ottawa.

 

[unimaginative2]

Absolutely. The service is so bad as it is that there's scads of low-hanging fruit ripe for the picking. While a real, French-style high speed line is obviously ideal, there's no reasons why we shouldn't do the easy incremental improvements. Simple projects for Toronto to Kitchener that could easily shave off 20 minutes or more:

• Refurbish Credit and Grand River bridges so that trains don't have to slow to a crawl
• Fence in track along Guelph residential street to eliminate 5mph slow order
• Eliminate the level crossings through Weston and increase speed limits on the Weston sub

The circuits at level crossings are indeed a problem for increasing speeds, but that would be incredibly easy to fix.

 

[nfitz]

Agreed. Lots of low-hanging fruit. But you need someone to commit to pay for these. The current funding announcement only has about $100 million or so for these issues ... but was 4 years in the making, as Harper essentially reinstated the 2003 funding that Martin cut when he became PM.

Unless our government suddenly decides that they can score Kyoto points by funding these projects, it could be decades before this work is done. What was the last major alignment upgrade between Toronto and Montreal? Was it the Kingston Station by-pass in the early 1970s?

 

[unimaginative2]

There's been some minor work since then here and there. The big upgrade recipient was the Ottawa-Montreal route, and with good reason. VIA already owns the corridor, and cheap improvements provided major reductions in travel time (close to half an hour saved). That corridor has so much potential, especially with the AirRail service that VIA's trying to provide to Dorval. There is absolutely no reason why planes should fly (many times a day!) from Ottawa to Montreal.

In order to start building support for VIA across the country, they've got to start providing a national service. What about a Vancouver-Abbotsford-Chilliwack train service or a real Victoria-Nanaimo service (the Malahat is a real pain to drive, espeically in the winter, but the condition of the tracks is so terrible that you can't even read a book)? Edmonton-Calgary is a no-brainer. If they could just improve the tracks a bit (instead of abandoning them as is presently planned), it would be time to bring passenger service back to Fort McMurray. The highway from there to Edmonton is one of the most congested and dangerous in the country. People are (literally) dying for alternatives.

Unfortunately, outside the Corridor, VIA is seen as nothing but a tourist train, and with good reason. The Canadian regularly runs hours late, operates three times a week, and costs an absolute fortune. Nobody in their right mind would use it for regular transportation.

 

[nfitz]

VIA already owns the corridor

Does it? I know they bought the old CP line from Hudson to Ottawa - where there is no track (and probably not much ownership left either, given that they've done nothing to maintain the right-of-way for the last quarter-century or so). But I had no idea they'd bought the CN line.

 

[Hipster Duck]

There's been some minor work since then here and there. The big upgrade recipient was the Ottawa-Montreal route, and with good reason. VIA already owns the corridor, and cheap improvements provided major reductions in travel time (close to half an hour saved). That corridor has so much potential, especially with the AirRail service that VIA's trying to provide to Dorval. There is absolutely no reason why planes should fly (many times a day!) from Ottawa to Montreal.

In order to start building support for VIA across the country, they've got to start providing a national service. What about a Vancouver-Abbotsford-Chilliwack train service or a real Victoria-Nanaimo service (the Malahat is a real pain to drive, espeically in the winter, but the condition of the tracks is so terrible that you can't even read a book)? Edmonton-Calgary is a no-brainer. If they could just improve the tracks a bit (instead of abandoning them as is presently planned), it would be time to bring passenger service back to Fort McMurray. The highway from there to Edmonton is one of the most congested and dangerous in the country. People are (literally) dying for alternatives.

Unfortunately, outside the Corridor, VIA is seen as nothing but a tourist train, and with good reason. The Canadian regularly runs hours late, operates three times a week, and costs an absolute fortune. Nobody in their right mind would use it for regular transportation.

Perhaps passenger rail services should be under the jurisdiction of provincial governments which would be better able to respond to regional needs. Right now, there is a lot of ill will aimed toward VIA from Western politicians who justifiably believe that VIA basically serves "Eastern" (read: Central Canadian) interests.

Vancouver-Abbotsford-Chilliwack could be an upgraded WCE service. Alberta is a conservative Petro-economy that denies the importance of public transportation but on the street there is a lot of talk about how congested Hwy 2 is and how rail service, high-speed or not, is a no-brainer.

 

[unimaginative2]

Does it? I know they bought the old CP line from Hudson to Ottawa - where there is no track (and probably not much ownership left either, given that they've done nothing to maintain the right-of-way for the last quarter-century or so). But I had no idea they'd bought the CN line.

Yup, they bought the Alexandria Sub some years ago.