VIA Rail: New Funding

[DavidJamesTO]

I don't think there's anything left to cut. The Corridor is too heavily-used to destroy, the Canadian and Ocean will result in an even greater number of lost seats in the next election if they're cut (not to mention absent tourist revenue), and everything else could feasibly be taken over by private operators or the provincial governments.

In an amusing twist of irony, the services VIA would like to drop most (Vancouver Island and Sudbury Junction-White River) are still running because the staff were contracted out to non-Teamster members.

 

[kettal]

Strike is over.

Both sides have reached an agreement to go into binding arbitration.

My congratulations to the union management who actually know how to stage an effective strike. It's a rarity these days.

 

[vegeta_skyline]

Strike is over.

Both sides have reached an agreement to go into binding arbitration.

What!?
What the hell, it barely even started.
Thats no fun, I lost a bet with my crew mates on how long it would last. Now I owe the CSA on my train a couple of beers.

 

[MisterF]

I've always been interested in what rail travel in Canada could be. Here's how I'd like to see rail expanded. Red is high speed, blue is conventional rail with daily service, and green is limited service mainly for tourists or remote communities.

Corridor
-HSR through the corridor.
-Rail expanded to Welland, Peterborough, Orillia, Sherbrooke, Mont Tremblant, and Collingwood/Owen Sound.

East
-Move The Canadian to more populated corridors in the Lake Simcoe area, Northern Ontario, and east of Quebec City. Keep most of the existing routes as reduced service routes.
-Daily service to Saint John.
-Can the Sudbury-White River route.

West
-The Canadian rerouted to a more populated corridor between Winnipeg and Edmonton. Daily service connecting major Prairie cities and towns.
-Possible connections to Amtrak's Empire Builder. The one south of Lethbridge might not work because it doesn't really go anywhere.
-Daily service to Whistler. Why this wasn't done for the Olympics is beyond me.
-HSR Vancouver-Seattle

 

[kettal]

Would skipping Ottawa make HSR significantly faster?

 

[ShonTron]

You can't can the Sudbury-White River service; that is one of four remote service routes VIA runs. I'd shift the Canadian back to the CPR route, keep the White River service (basically, it would allow the Canadian to run without random stops in the remote areas, leaving that for the RDCs, this is how it was pre-1990).

Instead, I'd run a daily Sudbury-Sault train. Otherwise, your ideas are quite sound.

 

[sjc]

Would skipping Ottawa make HSR significantly faster?

It wouldn't make the Toronto-Ottawa or the Ottawa-Montreal parts of it significantly faster...

 

[Dan416]

It wouldn't make the Toronto-Ottawa or the Ottawa-Montreal parts of it significantly faster...

LOL.

Yes skipping Ottawa would make Toronto-Montreal faster. I think that's fairly obvious just from looking at the map and the triangle made by Ottawa-Montreal-Kingston. The shortest distance between any two points is a straight line. Clearly diverting to Ottawa is not a straight line. Whether the added time is significant or not is debatable, especially since we're talking about HSR. If a regular Toronto-Montreal trip served Ottawa as well, I'm positive it'd add a lot of time. But for HSR, it might not save as much time.

 

[kEiThZ]

I have said it before and I'll say it again. If they can just spend a billion or two to ensure that VIA can operate at full speed (160 kph) in the corridor, that alone would make a huge difference and make VIA truly competitive with the car.

From Malvern to my place in Ottawa, traveling from Guildwood, it takes me just over 5 hrs door-to-door on a train. I am an above average scenario with my Toronto residence a 15-20 minute drive from Guildwood and my Ottawa residence two stops on the Transitway in Ottawa from the Train station. The same drive (430 kph door-to-door) takes me under 4.5 hrs driving 120 kph with two short bathroom breaks along the way. Simply knocking off a half hour along the corridor would make the train entirely worthwhile.

The other issue is cost. The train is uber-expensive compared to the bus or driving...and this is largely because the Corridor services are subsidizing the other routes. It's time to stop this. Maybe they need to spin off the Corridor service. But they need to use the profits on that route to improve services and reduce ticket prices.

 

[DavidJamesTO]

They need to spin off a few routes. My suggestions:

- The Skeena: to Rocky Mountaineer, with occupancy in a couple cars offered at a lower rate for those who actually use it for travel instead of tourism
- Malahat: to Island Corridor Foundation (the ones operating the line)
- Winnipeg-The Pas/Churchill: to Hudson Bay Railway with a federal or provincial subsidy
- Sudbury-White River: to Ontario Northland
- Chaleur: to the province or a private operator; truncate to a Matapedia-Gaspe train
- Abitibi and Saguenay: ditto; provide small provincial or federal subsidies to both

To make sure they aren't shut down, the contract will stipulate that they must be operated at a level of service no less than what is currently offered. If this is not possible, they can be returned to government control and a new tender will be offered.

That leaves the Corridor and the Canadian and Ocean, arguably the more popular of VIA's long-distance offerings. I would maintain VIA branding and ownership of the equipment for consistency's sake, but would contract out the operations to a third party. I'd also suggest (if not require) that a through sleeping car or two be operated on both trains, carried between Montreal and Toronto by a conventional Corridor train. As the old American railroad ad said, "a pig can cross the country in one car, but you can't." (And yes, I'm aware the railroads got out of the livestock-carrying business.)

 

[EnviroTO]

The changes I would recommend would be less significant.

ATLANTIC:
----------
MOVE The Ocean: Switch to the Edmundston route with Moncton-Halifax occuring in the evening and Halifax-Moncton occurring in the morning. Seek McGiveny-Fredricton-Saint John bus connection.

NEW Fundy Service (RDC): Saint John - Moncton - Halifax daily mornings with return in evening.
The Gaspe: Keep or replace with connecting bus service which would be quicker.

QUEBEC:
--------
Senneterre: No change

Jonquiere: No change

CORRIDOR:
----------
UPGRADE Main Line: Using JetTrain upgrade lines to 170km/h Windsor-Chatham-London-Kitchener-Pearson-Toronto-Peterborough and Ottawa-Montreal-Trois Rivieres-Quebec largely using existing ROWs. Create new 240km/h HSR ROW Peterborough-Kingston-Ottawa. First phase Toronto to Ottawa in 2h10min (currently 4h30min) and Toronto to Montreal in 3h20min (currently 4h38min). Second phase upgrade to HSR ROW Ottawa-Montreal to reduce Montreal trip by an additional 20min (3h). Third phase upgrade to HSR ROW Toronto-Peterborough to reduce Ottawa and Montreal by additional 10min (2h Ottawa, 2h50min Montreal). Final phase electrification for speeds of 320km/h to reduce times further to 1h30min Ottawa and 2h10min Montreal. Direct routing Toronto to Montreal could reduce trip by up to 30min but wouldn't have the benefit of serving Ottawa or Peterborough so that 30min needs to be weighed against the additional cost of a regional route to Peterborough, a HSR line between Kingston and Ottawa and between Ottawa and Montreal (approximately 150km of additional HSR or 20% more), and any additional costs associated with a new HSR corridor through the more populated north shore of Lake Ontario.

UPGRADE 140km/h Secondary Line: Sarnia-London-Brantford-Oakville-Toronto-Oshawa-Belleville-Kingston-Brockville-Cornwall-Montreal-Sherbrooke in existing ROW. Use existing equipment and get benefit of connections to faster service at London, Toronto, Kingston, and Montreal, new service to Sherbrooke, and faster service to Sarnia.

REPLACE Niagara Falls route with GO services except for Maple Leaf service.

NORTHERN ONTARIO:
--------------------
REBRAND Northlander service under VIA Rail.

EXTEND Sudbury-White River service: North Bay-Sudbury-White River-Thunder Bay and connect to Northlander.

NEW Soo Service: Toronto-North Bay-Sudbury-Sault Ste Marie service scheduled opposite to Northlander.

WESTERN CANADA:
--------------------
Hudson Bay: No change

MOVE The Canadian: Move to south line Toronto-Winnipeg-Regina-Calgary-Vancouver.

EXTEND The Skeena: Regina-Saskatoon-Edmonton-Jasper-Prince George-Price Rupert.

NEW Whistler Service provided by West Coast Express.

NEW Alberta Service: 170km/h JetTrain Calgary-Red Deer-Edmonton with 140km/h extensions to Lethbridge and Fort McMurray using mostly existing ROWs. Calgary to Edmonton in 1h50min. JetTrain in completely new ROWs reduces time between Calary and Edmonton to 1h20min. Future electrification could reduce time to 1h.

Vancouver Island: No change.

 

[unimaginative2]

The airports pay rents to the federal government and they fund their own further developments through airport improvement fees. Air Canada may not have built Pearson but it has certainly helped pay for it many times over. There aren't many scenario where a train operator would more than recover capital costs for HSR. Even the Japanese had to spend hundreds of billions on bailing out their rail service after it built an HSR network.

That's partly true, but it mainly has to do with the astoundingly expensive line to the Prime Minister's hometown in Niigata. More than half of it is in tunnels through the mountains, and Niigata has only about 300,000 people. It's a pretty awesome trip, though!

JR Central, on the other hand, is planning to build the new maglev line from Tokyo to Nagoya (US$44 billion) without government support.

I'm not saying that we'll be able to get a return on our capital investment like that in Canada, but there's no reason the government shouldn't be building rail infrastructure the same way that it builds air and road infrastructure. For people that suggest that air travel pays for itself, remember that they have benefited from decades of subsidy and the ground rent at airports doesn't cover a fraction of the value of the land.

 

[Northern Light]

Plans for VIA

So, I've been thinking for awhile about contributing to this thread.

As someone passionate about the environment, and with a general preference for rail just for comfort.....

I was prepared to write a long treatise on the many great ways we could improve this rail system!

THEN I TRIED to BOOK one of those 60% OFF Tickets!

Holy Mother Bleeping F'ing! More than 1 1/2 days of trying I can't get past the second screen on the reservations page without it timing out.

They offer a great deal; the whole nation seems ready to take advantage of it; they unearth tons of latent demand; and then stifle it all by having a site that crumbles when more people than expected try to use it!



So instead of proposing:

Restoring the Transcontinental
HSR in the Windsor-Quebec corridor
HSR in the Edmonton-Calgary Corridor
Restored service to Cape Breton
Restored Service to Thunder Bay
Restored Service to Owen Sound
And one or two other places.....

I have deemed the highest priority for VIA RAIL to FIRE the idiot who designed the website; the idiot marketer who said let's cut tickets 60% w/o checking first with the idiot web guy to see if the system could handle it.
Then firing the idiot CEO that hired them both!



As a taxpayer and rail fan, I vote to hire Vegeta, Drum and Rocket to run VIA.

That's when they're not busy running GO, and the TTC of course. Just a hobby project!

 

[kettal]

I have said it before and I'll say it again. If they can just spend a billion or two to ensure that VIA can operate at full speed (160 kph) in the corridor, that alone would make a huge difference and make VIA truly competitive with the car.

Am I wrong, or is this pretty much what this thread's announcement was about?

 

[kEiThZ]

Am I wrong, or is this pretty much what this thread's announcement was about?

I don't think the new funding will achieve this. It'll simply free up bottlenecks that'll shorten travel times by a bit but mostly it'll help improve on-time performance. They are largely spending on a few tunnels at stations and some passing tracks. I'd like to see them spend a bit every year on adding more grade separation, straightening the tracks, etc. whatever it takes to slowly get the corridor up to around 4 hrs for Toronto-Ottawa and 4.5 hrs for Toronto-Montreal.