US cities vs. Canadian cities generalization

[AlchemisTO]

Have you ever noticed that:

- Canadian cities have superior walking neighbourhoods with a great diversity of commercial uses along a strip. Our neighbourhoods have a lot more colour to them than theirs and we take these for granted. In Toronto we have several neighbourhoods like Hillcrest Village, the Junction, Leaside and Bloorcourt Village that don't have much folklore attached to them here, but if they were in any US city (including New York and Chicago) they would be so heavily treasured and trumped up that soon nobody could afford to live there. This is why US cities suffers from rampant gentrification and unfortunately it's something of a vicious cycle.

- American cities have superior architecture, from all eras, that they treat so casually. If downtown Syracuse were in Canada, it would see eye-to-eye with downtown Winnipeg, a city that Canadians can't help but gush over in terms of its architectural gravitas. Americans don't make the same faux- pas as Canadians do when it comes to architecture because they assign their projects a realistic budget; no green glass and cracked concrete at the bases. When Canadians attempt anything like Park Avenue, the Grand Concourse or the Magnificent Mile they end up getting University Ave. in the process: a pathetic pastiche of below-market buildings on a boulevard of weed trees in outdated concrete planters.

The most American neighbourhood in Canada is Old Montreal's financial district along St. Jacques. The most Canadian neighbourhood in America is probably the Mission district in San Francisco.

 

[simply Dan]

The most American neighbourhood in Canada is

...Barton St, East Hamilton. Or possibly downtown Brantford.

I found University Avenue last summer to be both spotless and stunning - the flowers, trees and landscaping was better maintained and more beautiful than anything I have seen on a street in downtown Toronto... probably ever! I'm hoping for more of the same this year.

 

[spmarshall]

...Barton St, East Hamilton. Or possibly downtown Brantford.

I could think of a few more - Winnipeg's North End, for instance, or parts of East End Vancouver.

I find Quebec's Autoroutes and many of the suburban areas surrounding Quebec and Montreal to have a more American feel to them than the suburbs surrounding Ottawa or Toronto, or the 400-series highways.

I haven't had enough experience with multiple US cities to find a neighbourhood I felt was very "Canadian".

 

[Antiloop33rpm]

While they might be generalizations I do think its far to say they do hold a fair amount of truth to them.

American cities - The individual architecture of many cities does stand above their Canadian counterparts. But I dont find this very surprising really. The United States is a capitalist powerhouse and with its dog eat dog mentality to most aspects of life its not surprising that its cities reflect this. When an American city is in a boom, extrordinary amounts of money find its way in.

But when cities fly so high, it also means the lows can be just as striking in their own way. On the occasions I am in the United States it is almost inevitable that you will pass through some small, former industrial stronghold that has become a ghost town (should you actually get off the Interstate for a few minutes).

Canadian cities - They are anarchic in nature. There is almost no planning. Architecture and design could be in the hands of an architect, developer, artisan, creative citizen, not so creative citizen. Everyone seems to have the belief that the city should look as they desire. NIMBY's are often protecting the idylic suburban life they have come to know. Urbanists want traditional neighborhoods. Teenage boys want tall buildings. The cities want what ever brings in the most in development fees or property taxes or will strain the city the least.

For some, this lack of order may be frustrating. But it is a unique feature of Canadian cities and while it may mean that refined beauty is not likely to be part of the lexicon when trying to describe Toronto or Vancouver, it has ment that livability is.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I would add to the list the presence of neighbourhoods at extreme ends of the socioeconomic spectrum. Our so called "slums" pales in comparison to what's offered down south (though our so called rich neighbourhoods also appears to be far less conspicious as well). Another interesting thing is that poor and rich neighbourhoods are often juxtapositioned against one another closely from a geographical perspective here in Canada.

AoD

 

[spmarshall]

Another interesting thing is that poor and rich neighbourhoods are often juxtapositioned against one another closely from a geographical perspective here in Canada.

I've noticed that in the States too, though. Case in point is Alter Road, the border between Detroit and the Grosse Pointes, where crossing that line is like night and day, though I agree with you completely with there notbeing quite as polar extremes between poor and wealthy neighbourhoods.

 

[adma]

Unless something like Bloor/Rosedale Valley as a divide btw/Rosedale + St. James Town counts. (Yeah, not really.)

 

[miketoronto]

American cities are more grand, because they where big during the great "urban city building" movements, before the auto suburbs as invented. Canadian cities where small towns before the suburbs started. Thats why our cities are not built on as grand a scale.

 

[Antiloop33rpm]

American cities are more grand, because they where big during the great "urban city building" movements, before the auto suburbs as invented. Canadian cities where small towns before the suburbs started. Thats why our cities are not built on as grand a scale.

But the fact that American cities embrace such movements is the reason why Canadian and American cities will continue to be different.

Take this current momment in time. By most accounts, Canadian cities are doing well. If a 21st century, Canadian derived, City Beautiful movement were ever to succeed, the conditions would be more than ideal.

But do we see this taking place? No. There are some noteworthy plans and efforts. The TWRC and its plans in Toronto. Lebreton Flats in Ottawa. Le Societe du Havre in Montreal. And while I am still becoming familiar with its regulations, Vancouver has garnered attention for its regulations dictating how the city is being built. Yet none of these are grand movements by any means. At best they are piecemeal approaches incorporating conflicting visions from local (although mostly international) architects.

Another case in point is Calgary. What would Calgary look like if its same economic fortunes were taking place in the United States? If ever there was a Canadian city that had the chance to create a grand city with beautiful architecture built on capitalist excess and arrogance, this would it. And 'maybe' this will happen, but of what I have seen built thusfar in the boom, it essentially follows the same, rather reserved and unplanned Canadian model.

Its not that I believe this method of city building is bad. As I mentioned before, the various mechanisms that have in part lead to less than refined cities have also lead to cities which are among the most liveable in the world. And Canadian cities, with their random and quirky nature, do have their own charm and beauty, if not in a classic sense. They simply are what they are.

 

[wyliepoon]

I do notice a difference between American and Canadian cities, but I can't think of any generalizations. I definitely can't comment much on neighbourhoods because I haven't personally been in an urban US neighbourhood aside from one or two days in Buffalo, or afternoons in various American CBDs like Midtown Manhattan and the Chicago Loop.

As for architecture, I think Canada, given its population and amount of money and resources compared to the US (and also the tough northern climate and its effect on buildings and construction), has done quite well. Whereas the recent great works of architecture in the US go to a select number of cities (such as NY, Chicago, or LA), in Canada they appear to be quite evenly spread out amongst the big cities. Even though it might disturb urbanists that suburbs like Mississauga and Surrey are going after landmark towers, it goes to show how far architecture has spread in Canada (I wonder what American suburbs are trying to land the same towers). The average Canadian probably thinks more often about design than the average American, who is more likely to be preoccupied about racial issues, politics, the war in Iraq, etc. The fact that Toronto, Canada's largest city, is in the midst of a huge discussion over its architectural future (waterfront, Expo, etc.), Montreal is regularly churning out small but well-designed projects, and Vancouver is recognized as one of the world's most beautiful cities, really raises the level of architectural consciousness in Canada.

 

[ganjavih]

Hmmm... Canadian versus American cities. Let's start with the obvious, Canadian cities are generally more comfortable, orderly and livable. American cities are much more chaotic which make them fun to visit but not to live in. There are probably only a handful of American cities where I would actually want to live in the city and not the suburbs.

Without a doubt, architecture in American cities is superior to ours... even in second rate cities. I always assumed this was because they are older but I could be wrong. It probably also has to do with the famous entrepreneurial American spirit and all that too. I find Canadian architecture to be quite bland and uninspiring, not only versus American architecture but also by international standards, though it seems to be slowly improving somewhat. We're a nation of conservative penny-pinchers and it shows in our cities. Very little in the way of grand monuments, boulevards, architecture, etc. compared to American or European cities.

Of course, it's nice when you're in large Canadian cities and you don't have to worry about taking the wrong turn or strolling down the wrong street. Montreal and Toronto are incredibly ethnically diverse in a way that few cities in the world, let alone in America, are. You really see the racial divide in many large American cities, both in terms of geography and in the sorts of jobs whites and blacks have.

The most Canadian-feeling city I've been to in the States is probably Seattle... very Vancouverish. Hamilton and East Vancouver feel very American to me.

 

[SD2]

This is a great thread!

I think Toronto for one has had some "grand" projects, but since they come from the modernist era they aren't really held in high regard. To most people the TD Centre, for example, is nothing more than a collection of simple black boxes.

It would be nice to see one large scale project that spares no expense...but in this day and age that's highly unlikely.

You'd be surprised at how many American's I've spoke to that describe the city as being beautiful though. Sometimes it surprises me, but then I guess the grass is always greener...

 

[Archivistower]

I think Alchemists initial comments, as generalizations, are true enough, for many of the reasons that people have already cited. They are more competitive, more daring, and frequently have more access to money than we do. They are not afraid of big projects, which we seem to plan to death.

I like Seattle and I think it's a good example for this thread. I always thought Seattle is what you would get if Vancouver and Toronto had a baby. It's much more decrepit and interesting than Vancouver is (I find central Vancouver antiseptic) and with its multiple expressways and and plans to ameliorate those it has a lot in common with Toronto. Seattle has much, much more interesting architecture than Vancouver, just look at their respective libraries.

 

[Antiloop33rpm]

I think Toronto for one has had some "grand" projects, but since they come from the modernist era they aren't really held in high regard. To most people the TD Centre, for example, is nothing more than a collection of simple black boxes.

I dont know if I would say that about TD Centre. There are always going to be some people who simply do not care about architecture and will be totally ignorant of its existence or its beauty. But TD Centre is probably one of the better known examples of architecture in Canada, and outside of Canada I might note too.

The problem is not in small scale projects. Look around Toronto, there are recent examples (OCAD, ROM, AGO, etc) and many more examples through time. Toronto's towers in the park are a great example of the Le Corbousier Radiant City style of urbanism, even if only but across small, independent areas of the city and not in some larger scale.

But it is grand projects on a scale larger than a few blocks and with a long term, 50+ year vision that are rare in Canadian cities. Ottawa is good example of this. In the 1950's there were rather interesting plans for the city. You can look at the picture below and see a rather modest, but interesting plan to create a boulevard which would link Hurdman with Ottawa University and with downtown. Its by no means over the top and extravegant, but its dignified and would likely have been rather pleasant.

Instead, this is what exists today. On ramps, off ramps, a 6 lane highway, and a disjointed connection between many key elements and neighborhoods in the city. (The picture is the best I could find in a pinch but at least offers some visual reference and reminder).

I would contrast this with Washington D.C. but I dont think I need to go too in depth since most people are probably familiar with how the American capital was planned and developed.

This is a very interesting topic and I could go on for quite a while but just a last thought to end on. Well a couple actually.

The first would be geography and climate. If you think about the geographic and climatic diversity of our country, it presents circumstances which do a lot in determining how Canadian cities look and how they are built. This is often dictated in the budgets of building where it may make economic sense to skip on that italian marble facade and instead invest in a good heating system and building envelope. And to take the case of Vancouver and geography. The architecture may not be anything special, but, who cares when you have the stunning view of the mountains and the Pacific Ocean as the anchor for your city.

The last point would be very much applicable to Toronto. At times, Canadian cities very often have not just an industrial feel to them, but a very engineered one. And if you think about it this makes a lot of sense. Our cities have grown out of these processes. The first modern catalyst would have been the transcontinetal railroad, in addition to the industrial movements that were taking place. The second modern catalyst has been one based in engineering. The CN Tower, the Skydome, the 401 and DVP. On their own, they are rather impressive (or interesting) engineering feats. For better or worse, the 401 is still an awesome site and quite impressive from a traffic engineering stand point. Another example outside of Toronto that has just come to mind is the Confederation Bridge. It may not be pretty and other nordic countries have certainly done a better job at creating beautiful bridges in harsh conditions. But it works, well, and in the minds of many people, that is what ultimately matters.

Thats my two cents for now. Time to go do something productive now I suppose.

 

[miketoronto]

Toronto actually I think built amazing buildings and had a great attitude of wanting to build a grand city, back in the 50-70's. During that time we built amazing sturcutres that still define us today, like City Hall, TD CENTRE, CN TOWER, Eaton Centre, etc. All these places are amazing buildings, and I think they do show that Toronto did think big at one time.

Another reason American cities may be thinking bigger, is because they need to attract people back to the core. And well you need flashy stuff to get people back sometimes.

You guys are going to slam me for this, but Canadian cities are turning more American each day. Yes our suburbs are denser, and have more transit use, and mixed uses. But Canada is also seeing a movement with our suburbs that is very American, in terms of de-centralizing everything so that people no longer need to actually go into the city.
When this whole de-centralization is finnished, we might just see grand projects like American cities, because that might be the only way to lure people back to the core.

I always say, we where different, but since the 1990's we have turned more American. Vaughan for example, is a classic American style suburb built on the attitude of wanting to kill the core city as much as possible, and keep their residents within their borders.

So while we do have our differences, and the core inner city of most Canadian cities are much better off then American ones. I think we are starting to see our metro regions though resemble more and more of the American style. And this may be something we might want to look at, because do we really want Canadian cities to resemble our American counterparts in that way??????