Unions!

[Hydrogen]

Truth is considering how well payed, pampered and protected they are, its disgraceful the service they provide to people. The more disgraceful part is that you tolerate it. That attitude of tolerating mediocrity is a great hurt to these city.

You take the "lord" part of your handle a little too seriously. Maybe you are so oversensitive to feel as if every ride on the TTC offends your delicate sensibilities. That must be tough for you, but too bad.

As for the "disgraceful" part, maybe I don't find my everyday use of the TTC to feel mediocre like you do. Frankly, I've experienced far worse in other cities. Once again, I think this perception is evidence of your otherwise delicate nature and your repetitive and unrealistic expectations to receive perfection by way of a dime in spending.

Yeah, the TTC can be improved, but it's a tad bit facile to believe that this improvement will come by way of cutting employee wages. As for $20.00 an hour, that's the pay for a security guard at the ROM. Now you can demand a wage cut there too. Knock yourself out.

 

[lordmandeep]

I could care less if the ROM security guard is getting paid $100.00 an hour.

I go there once every 5 years.

We use the TTC everyday and imo I honestly believe the union is holding back the TTC from modernizing due to their outdated and inefficient union ways. For how much they are getting paid I would expect cleaner stations and more helpful employees.


I am saying do something to modernize and clean up the system. The TTC Union does not care about providing service but about taking care of themselves and take the city literally hostage whenever they feel like.

If money is an issue, limit pay increases and use it buy buses and such...

The thing is all of the recent price increases have mostly gone to subsidize over payed workers. Service has gotten better mostly due to increased frequency but the stations are still dirty and the employees are still rude. They are nice ones, and maybe I am unlucky.

How you people put up with this mediocrity is beyond me. City Council and TTC Managment is to blame but do you ever hear what the TTC union bosses say. Its disgraceful and selfish to the extreme. I am angry that such sleazy people are becoming more powerful in our city. They will continue to benefit themselves and the city will just increase our taxes more and more.

You fool yourself if you think these tax increases are all going towards infrastructure. Its to pay for those bloated union contracts signed under Mayor Miller reign.


I would imagine GO train gets payed the same and they have a ton of problems. The main difference is if I ask a question I get a respectful answer. For that I tolerate their delayed trains and infrequency.

 

[Patrick Smyth]

that's interesting to know - that the GoTrain is better mannered/mangaged than the TTC.

 

[Hydrogen]

How you people put up with this mediocrity is beyond me. City Council and TTC Managment is to blame but do you ever hear what the TTC union bosses say. Its disgraceful and selfish to the extreme. I am angry that such sleazy people are becoming more powerful in our city. They will continue to benefit themselves and the city will just increase our taxes more and more.

You fool yourself if you think these tax increases are all going towards infrastructure. Its to pay for those bloated union contracts signed under Mayor Miller reign.

Gets under your skin, doesn't it? What exactly do you mean by "you people"? I use the TTC every day, too. So what? The simple and obvious fact that you appear to be incapable of distinguishing between a wage, the entire union or its individual members is telling. It suggests a lack of capacity in making distinctions between different things.

Concerning your babble over tax increases and infrastructure, this is just another example of your poor comprehension. I challenge you to directly quote me where I've suggested such a thing. In the end you only fool yourself - and do so quite well.

Anyone who know anything (unlike you) understands that the TTC (and the city) was starved of infrastructure and transit funding for years by provincial and federal governments that saw no reason to invest in infrastructure. The fact that you suggest that this is solely the responsibility of the city and the TTC unions is silly, small and uninformed.

I would imagine GO train gets payed the same and they have a ton of problems. The main difference is if I ask a question I get a respectful answer. For that I tolerate their delayed trains and infrequency.

Just some more anecdotal evidence that ain't worth much. Go right ahead and take the late train. The minute anyone there gives you an answer that you deem to be disrespectful according to your holy self-referential standards, you'll have to abandon GO as well. At that point you're just going to be plumb outa luck, kiddo. Buy a car now. That'll mean more room on the streetcar or the subway for me.

As for property taxes and the like, get back to me when you move out of your parents house. Come move downtown with your car, and then try to buy or rent a place all on $20.00 an hour. Get back to me when you actually do all that.

 

[mangasparky]

This is my first ever UT post. I would like to say happy new year to everybody.

I've been reading the unions section of this forum and it is very heated. This may add fuel to the fire, but I am entitled to my opinion. I am a strong supporter of unions in both the private and public sectors.
Unions are very important to both union workers and non-union workers. A union workers wages and benefits reflect the non union side positively by forcing non union employers to compete to keep their valued workers with competitive wage increases and benifits.

 

[Whoaccio]

Which private urban transit sector in Canada? Your little graph isn't terribly useful.

Greyhound, Megabus, chartered bus drivers, It is pretty easy to take private sector bus operators and adjust accordingly. Any accountant could do this. There are differences, but not very many. Also, TTC costs aren't all bus drivers. A lot of it comes from jobs like bus maintainence, floor cleaning, IT workers, managers and people to sit on stools. All of these have oodles of private sector analogues. A Subway Sandwiches cashier boy, whose job is identical to the typical token monkey, gets payed 50% less than the exact same TTC position.

 

[mangasparky]

I think that the food service industry needs to unionize. Also, the Subway sandwich cashier boy is a teenager most likely still in highschool living at home with out children. Maybe we can let teenagers drive the buses and work in the token booths.

 

[Whoaccio]

I think that the food service industry needs to unionize. Also, the Subway sandwich cashier boy is a teenager most likely still in highschool living at home with out children. Maybe we can let teenagers drive the buses and work in the token booths.

Obviously we can't let teenagers drive buses if they don't have the appropriate licensing. If they do though, why shouldn't we? Why are old people, all things being equal, more appropriate for driving a bus? And we definitely should allow teenagers to be booth monkeys. Why the hell not? It is a great job for a teenager. Low skill, low responsibility, low pay.

 

[Hydrogen]

A Subway Sandwiches cashier boy, whose job is identical to the typical token monkey, gets payed 50% less than the exact same TTC position.

Just curious, but could you cite these wages? Also, what does a Greyhound driver make an hour?

I don't recall any monkeys working for the TTC.

Greyhound drivers are unionized.

 

[mangasparky]

I would rather not have a teenager that can barely make my sandwich handle my daily commute.

I would like to see some real numbers also. I heard that a TTC employee makes 28 an hour, but that would be at the end of their current contract I believe. Would that mean that the subway sandwich guy makes 14 an hour? i think there would be alot of kids dropping out of school for that type of money.

 

[afransen]

Sparky,

I think the only things unions accomplish for non-union workers:

- higher taxes
- better treatment from employers who are terrified of their workers organizing (and thus losing contracts and going out of business)
- protracted strikes that are highly disruptive to innocent bystanders (who are not party to the negotiations).

I don't think unionized firms 'steal' all that many employees from non-unionized workforces. Any decent union job is usually quite difficult to get (witness the 40,000 person long waiting list to become a firefighter), a sure sign that that position is massively overcompensated.

 

[Hydrogen]

Sparky,

I think the only things unions accomplish for non-union workers:

- higher taxes

Do you mean they would pay higher taxes or are a cause of higher taxes? Would that include unionized workers in the private sector?

 

[bleeepbluuup]

Obviously we can't let teenagers drive buses if they don't have the appropriate licensing. If they do though, why shouldn't we? Why are old people, all things being equal, more appropriate for driving a bus? And we definitely should allow teenagers to be booth monkeys. Why the hell not? It is a great job for a teenager. Low skill, low responsibility, low pay.

Nuts to that. No monkeys, just lots of token dispensing machines.
If there is to be anyone in a booth at all, it should be an information booth only. And whoever's in there should be HIGHLY knowledgeable.

 

[lordmandeep]

I have nothing against Unions but when they become massive and powerful they are menace to society.


They become bloated, corrupt and inefficient and only care about themselves.


I do not care what kind of standards you think I have. I find it wrong to pay more for transit to subsidize higher pay increases... Imo for all the pay increases the quality of the system has not changed much.

If there is to be anyone in a booth at all, it should be an information booth only. And whoever's in there should be HIGHLY knowledgeable.

Indeed, God knows how many times I ask a TTC person a question and found myself knowing more.

Do you mean they would pay higher taxes or are a cause of higher taxes? Would that include unionized workers in the private sector?

They easily cause higher taxes due the fact they causes massive unsustainable increases to the city expenses. The difference between the revenue and the expenses is thus usually made up on the backs of people who do not enjoy the luxury of these unions.

As for property taxes and the like, get back to me when you move out of your parents house. Come move downtown with your car, and then try to buy or rent a place all on $20.00 an hour. Get back to me when you actually do all that.

Imo I could care less how much you need to live. I want better service. Your life or the token collectors desires are not my concern. Also all of the TTC workers do not live in condos/Apartments downtown. They all are over the place.

IMO it is not the TTC riders responsibility to give you the privilege to live downtown or enjoy a better lifestyle. That is your own responsibility.
Really would you tolerate everything at Tim Hortons doubling in price to give twice the pay to their employees? I would not. Is that selfish? Perhaps in the eyes of an idealist...


The things is if there was better service and cleaner stations, I could care less how much anyone is being payed or how well they are managed.

I may have so called High standards but imo this city is flush with money and its being thrown all in the drain and being gobbled up by all these unions. Sure we will get all of this money for infrastructure. I agree the city has been shortchanged but its mostly its own fault.

 

[gabe]

I'm a regular user of the TTC i have never had a problem with the TTC staff or service, after living in montreal and dealing with rude STM employees the TTC is a dream! Yeah the stations are old and dirty but welcome to north america. NY and chicago are no different, you would have to go to Europe or Asia to see sparkling clean modern stations and brand new trains.