U.S. Congresswoman calls for high-speed rail linking Manhattan to Canadian cities

[M II A II R II K]

U.S. Congresswoman calls for high-speed rail linking Manhattan to Canadian cities


Sep. 04 2012

Konrad Yakabuski

Read More: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...-manhattan-to-canadian-cities/article4517946/


New York Congresswoman Carolyn Maloney is known for never letting up until she gets what she wants. She successfully championed a “bill of rights†for credit card holders over the objections of the big banks. She was one of the leading proponents in a nearly 10-year battle to get Congress to cover the health-care costs of 9/11 first responders. Now, she wants governments in her country and Canada to get moving on building a high-speed rail line that would link Manhattan, where her district lies, to cities north of the border.

- Only one cross-border link – between New York and Montreal – is mentioned in the U.S. Transportation Department’s 2010 list of “priority corridors.†But little progress has been made on advancing the project advocated by the Quebec government. Prime Minister Stephen Harper has expressed no enthusiasm for the idea.

- Ms. Maloney, whose district covers most of Manhattan’s east side and parts of Queens, thinks expanding the scope of New York’s projects to include more populated Canadian cities makes economic sense and could be the key to their viability. In 2010, Mr. Cuomo said an eventual high-speed rail line linking New York with Toronto and Montreal would be “transformative.†But there is no such project on his current agenda. “High-speed rail is the Erie Canal of the 21 st century,†Ms. Maloney added, referring to the early 19 th century project that linked New York City to the Great Lakes, clearing the way for faster trade and travel to the U.S. Midwest.

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[gweed123]

In order for ideas like this to gain traction, they need a champion with political power. I applaud her for bringing this to the forefront. As a side note, maybe they can use some of the high speed rail money from Wisconsin and Florida that the Republican Governors turned down?

I also like the comparison between the HSR and the Erie Canal. Although granted it was more for trade than for passengers, it's still a good comparison.

Having international HSR may also just spur Canada into building our own along the QC-Windsor corridor.

 

[innsertnamehere]

HSR anywhere in Canada going anywhere, even if it isn't Canada, is a good thing in my books.

Agreed on this getting the ball rolling on the Quebec Windsor corridor. I don't think it will happen in this current government, but if this proposal were to gain traction I could see the Canadian public starting to finally realize that HSR is a real thing that actually might make sense to build. I don't think Harper will pursue HSR by himself, but if pushed by outside sources he would go along with it, at least for the portion from Toronto / Montreal to the Canadian border.

 

[M II A II R II K]

A Quebec - Detroit corridor, where there'd be customs to go through at a new renovated Detroit station. Customs at terminus stations as well on either side.

 

[doady]

Is there really much point in a high-speed rail connection to Detroit? I mean, it's Detroit.

High speed triangle of Toronto-Montreal-NYC is good enough.

 

[DKsan]

Through Detroit maybe? All the way to Chicago?

 

[gweed123]

Through Detroit maybe? All the way to Chicago?

That's what I was thinking. Any route for Detroit is more for a connection to Chicago then a connection to Detroit. Although from a US perspective, that wouldn't make much sense for them, because if they were going to connect to Chicago I'd think they'd do something like: New York > Philadelphia > Pittsburgh > Cleveland > Toledo > Chicago.

Although if they're going to be connecting to Toronto via Niagara Falls, maybe do: New York > Albany (with a split off to Montreal) > Syracuse > Rochester > Buffalo > Cleveland > Toledo > Chicago.

 

[BMO]

That's what I was thinking. Any route for Detroit is more for a connection to Chicago then a connection to Detroit. Although from a US perspective, that wouldn't make much sense for them, because if they were going to connect to Chicago I'd think they'd do something like: New York > Philadelphia > Pittsburgh > Cleveland > Toledo > Chicago.

Although if they're going to be connecting to Toronto via Niagara Falls, maybe do: New York > Albany (with a split off to Montreal) > Syracuse > Rochester > Buffalo > Cleveland > Toledo > Chicago.

LOL Toledo?.... I mean, I would've thought the same until I visited this past summer. Basically like Detroit, just 100 times smaller. Even Cleveland is iffy, if not for the numerous medical institutions in the area.

 

[gweed123]

LOL Toledo?.... I mean, I would've thought the same until I visited this past summer. Basically like Detroit, just 100 times smaller. Even Cleveland is iffy, if not for the numerous medical institutions in the area.

Well it doesn't need to pass right through the urban area, and I'm not saying there should necessarily be a stop there, I'm just showing that for alignment purposes.

And Toledo is the same distance from Cleveland as Kingston is from Toronto. And I've seen very few HSR proposals that skip having a stop in Kingston.

 

[DavidJamesTO]

If they hadn't thrown the money away, Ohio would have had a "Three C" rail corridor connecting Cleveland, Columbus, and Cincinnati with branches to Toledo, Pittsburgh, and Detroit. Combine that with a Detroit-Chicago corridor and you've got more than enough justification to extend high speed rail west of Toronto.

 

[ssiguy2]

HSR offers very little bang for the buck. The politicians offer love it because it makes for great ribbon cutting ceremonies but it, relatively speaking, serves few people and the people it serves are ussually business class or people with high disposable incomes.
HSR is in reality a subsidized transportation for people who need the subsidy less than anyone else. The money would be far better spend on urban transit.

 

[gweed123]

HSR offers very little bang for the buck. The politicians offer love it because it makes for great ribbon cutting ceremonies but it, relatively speaking, serves few people and the people it serves are ussually business class or people with high disposable incomes.
HSR is in reality a subsidized transportation for people who need the subsidy less than anyone else. The money would be far better spend on urban transit.

How is it any different from spending hundreds of millions, if not billions, on new airports, new terminals, terminal expansions, new runways, etc? It could be argued that airports serve the same class of people you described. What's wrong with shifting some of that funding away from public buildings that serve private airlines, and spend it on building more environmentally friendly transportation?

And I don't think it's an either-or thing, really. When you think about it, upgrading the Lakeshore and/or Georgetown corridors to HSR standards is going to inherently make them electrified for use as REX lines as well. The projects will need to be coordinated, but still.

Also, rail stations tend to be located in or very near CBDs. This cuts down on travel times to and from the terminals compared to flying. It also means that people are more likely to take public transit TO the station.

 

[BMO]

How is it any different from spending hundreds of millions, if not billions, on new airports, new terminals, terminal expansions, new runways, etc? It could be argued that airports serve the same class of people you described. What's wrong with shifting some of that funding away from public buildings that serve private airlines, and spend it on building more environmentally friendly transportation?

And I don't think it's an either-or thing, really. When you think about it, upgrading the Lakeshore and/or Georgetown corridors to HSR standards is going to inherently make them electrified for use as REX lines as well. The projects will need to be coordinated, but still.

Also, rail stations tend to be located in or very near CBDs. This cuts down on travel times to and from the terminals compared to flying. It also means that people are more likely to take public transit TO the station.

I feel like if HSR were built it would go along the Kitchener corridor towards Pearson and head down towards Union. Which would make it a double win, providing fast transit to Pearson for non-toronto residents, as well as providing fast transit straight to the city centre. Similar to how it works in the Netherlands with Schipol. Actually I just came back from studying abroad in the Netherlands, and I would say they've really go it down right. Their whole system in the country is essentially a mixture of long distance and short distance trains but they're all grouped under the same company. So VIA and GO would essentially be the same company for example. It allows people to choose what train they want to take to their destination. Say for instance you want to go to Utrecht. You purchase a ticket from Amsterdam to Utrecht, the cool thing is you aren't restricted to a certain time or train, you can choose any combination of trains or routes from Amsterdam to Utrecht. So say there is a train that goes direct to Utrecht at 4pm but the next train to Nijmegen goes to another town where yo can transfer and get to Utrecht earlier, you're allowed to take this route on the same purchased ticket. Absolutely fantastic.

But I digress...

 

[Hipster Duck]

I feel like if HSR were built it would go along the Kitchener corridor towards Pearson and head down towards Union. Which would make it a double win, providing fast transit to Pearson for non-toronto residents, as well as providing fast transit straight to the city centre. .

I agree. I think HSR should be primarily built to connect large bedroom communities (like KW, maybe as far out as London) with Toronto. A line to Montreal via Ottawa would also be supportable.

But building a line to arbitrary US cities seems foolish. The traffic between Toronto and even some very large US cities near us is remarkable small. Detroit-Toronto, for example, is served by a handful of Delta regional jets. I once flew Pearson to Detroit on a Beechcraft. I don't even think the demand is there to link up Toronto to a HSR system in the US to have, say, HSR service from Toronto to Chicago. For one, I don't think the Americans will build anything like this anytime soon, and secondly the customs procedure is too difficult to allow for anything but non-stop straight running on one side of the border or another, and there is not enough demand for that.

 

[BMO]

I agree. I think HSR should be primarily built to connect large bedroom communities (like KW, maybe as far out as London) with Toronto. A line to Montreal via Ottawa would also be supportable.

But building a line to arbitrary US cities seems foolish. The traffic between Toronto and even some very large US cities near us is remarkable small. Detroit-Toronto, for example, is served by a handful of Delta regional jets. I once flew Pearson to Detroit on a Beechcraft. I don't even think the demand is there to link up Toronto to a HSR system in the US to have, say, HSR service from Toronto to Chicago. For one, I don't think the Americans will build anything like this anytime soon, and secondly the customs procedure is too difficult to allow for anything but non-stop straight running on one side of the border or another, and there is not enough demand for that.

I completely agree. Keeping the HSR in the North-east US, and Toronto -MTL corridor is probably the most feasible. I'm even skeptical of linking up Windsor, London, and KW by HSR. Servicing London and KW can be done with moderate improvements to exisitng tracks to make the commute fairly competitive (something around >2hrs from london express). I believe the HSR should really only be focused on providing long-distance trips between two large centres rather than trying to justify it by making it stop at numerous smaller ones. I even question whether Kingston really merits HSR. I'm thinking Toronto -Ottawa - MTL or Even I guess with relation to this thread Toronto - (maybe) Buffalo - Albany - New York